Julio Cesar Chavez: GOAT

[kiDynamite92]

Sugar Ray Robinson went 91 fights undefeated.

[Wiley Hyena]

Originally Posted by kiDynamite92

Sugar Ray Robinson went 91 fights undefeated.

I don't think so, bro. lol

[crold1]

Originally Posted by Wiley Hyena

Nice post crold. But, Robinson did not go 88-0 before his first loss. THAT is incredible. And, Dundee knew Robinson, trained Ali, and his opinion cannot be ignored. I'm going with Chavez. I think prime Chavez beats prime Robinson.

Dredging up BoxRec for this but let's pause some more because I'm feeling a Robinson nuthug moment...

In his third year, beat LaMotta again and an aged but still able Hank who had just beat Willie Joyce a few fights prior. He pretty much beat at least one HOFer a career year for every year of the 40s except the 46-47 spread, and that's only because Abrams isn't in yet.

Robinson was like 128-1-2 when he lost to Turpin.

Chavez didn't beat a HOFer until his 57th fight (Rosario) and didn't start fighting top level guys until a good 40 fights in. It's not even comparable. And note Dundee called him the toughest. He was one tough SOB. That's not the same as the best. When Dundee voted in the AP best of the 20th Century poll, Robinson was his #1.

[Sangre Azteca]

If Chavez would have been born American, white or black he would have been considered the GOAT long time ago.

[P4P_No1]

Originally Posted by crold1

Dredging up BoxRec for this but let's pause some more because I'm feeling a Robinson nuthug moment...

In his third year, beat LaMotta again and an aged but still able Hank who had just beat Willie Joyce a few fights prior. He pretty much beat at least one HOFer a career year for every year of the 40s except the 46-47 spread, and that's only because Abrams isn't in yet.

Robinson was like 128-1-2 when he lost to Turpin.

Chavez didn't beat a HOFer until his 57th fight (Rosario) and didn't start fighting top level guys until a good 40 fights in. It's not even comparable. And note Dundee called him the toughest. He was one tough SOB. That's not the same as the best. When Dundee voted in the AP best of the 20th Century poll, Robinson was his #1.

end thread.

[Sangre Azteca]

Or at least top 5.

[Wiley Hyena]

Originally Posted by crold1

Dredging up BoxRec for this but let's pause some more because I'm feeling a Robinson nuthug moment...

In his third year, beat LaMotta again and an aged but still able Hank who had just beat Willie Joyce a few fights prior. He pretty much beat at least one HOFer a career year for every year of the 40s except the 46-47 spread, and that's only because Abrams isn't in yet.

Robinson was like 128-1-2 when he lost to Turpin.

Chavez didn't beat a HOFer until his 57th fight (Rosario) and didn't start fighting top level guys until a good 40 fights in. It's not even comparable. And note Dundee called him the toughest. He was one tough SOB. That's not the same as the best. When Dundee voted in the AP best of the 20th Century poll, Robinson was his #1.

crolt, I agree. You are feeling a bit like a nuthugger, especially in your statement that Chavez "didn't start fighting top level guys until a good 40 fights in". lol

Originally Posted by Sangre Azteca

If Chavez would have been born American, white or black he would have been considered the GOAT long time ago.

And, this is a sublime observation.

[chavezjrmexico]

He has the record for fighting the top ranked fighters and mandatory fighters! There was only only title that mattered that was the GREEN BELT (WBC) any others were not even considered real titles! no interim titles! He was the P4P in a decade so many times just splitting the number #1 spot at times with the baddest man in the planet (Iron Mike Tyson)! The famous punch he mastered the liver punch and also having mastered the best defense ever! HE WAS THE MISTER MIAGI OF BOXING !

[Wiley Hyena]

Originally Posted by chavezjrmexico

He has the record for fighting the top ranked fighters and mandatory fighters! There was only only title that mattered that was the GREEN BELT (WBC) any others were not even considered real titles! no interim titles! He was the P4P in a decade so many times just splitting the number #1 spot at times with the baddest man in the planet (Iron Mike Tyson)! The famous punch he mastered the liver punch and also having mastered the best defense ever! HE WAS THE MISTER MIAGI OF BOXING !

crolt forgot about this in his BoxRec search. lol

Chavez is the king. And, his liver punch has been imitated but never duplicated by anybody except maybe Irish Mickey Ward.

[crold1]

Originally Posted by Wiley Hyena

especially in your statement that Chavez "didn't start fighting top level guys until a good 40 fights in".

That's just true. Mario Martinez was a big step up and he never really looked back. But his first 40 or so were really his amateur career and there's not much there.