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#31
Old 12-04-2012, 12:57 AM
FightScorer
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Here is my top 5.

Lennox Lewis
Muhammad Ali
Mike Tyson
Larry Holmes
George Foreman 70's

6-7
Holyfield
Bowe

8
Vitali

9
Wladimir
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#32
Old 12-04-2012, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Cloud View Post
Good list and JAB proves he has no biases by adding Wladimir and Vitali.

Two fighters that, to some, he picks on the most.
Thank you my friend. I only pick on them with those who seek to falsely overrate them and are consistently unreasonable. Wlad is an all time great based on his skills, longevity and beating the best out there. Vittles might make my 25 spot only because his comp has been significantly weaker and he's never beaten the best fighter in his division. Hard to argue though that both would be top fighters or contenders in any era. They're great fighters, but only one is an all time great in my opinion.
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#33
Old 12-04-2012, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by FightScorer View Post
Here is my top 5.

Lennox Lewis
Muhammad Ali
Mike Tyson
Larry Holmes
George Foreman 70's

6-7
Holyfield
Bowe

8
Vitali

9
Wladimir

Nice post, I though disagree with some of your analysis.

You describe Louis as if he was a face first brawler, while he actually was cautious, had a very good defense and loved to set up traps with his footwork and lateral movement.

In my opinion it'd have been a slow fight for the first 4-5 rounds. Lewis would have struggled to adjust his jab-right hand combination, for Louis head movement was hard to time.
Louis would have tried to go to the body through lateral movement, stepping in and out.

In order to win Lewis would need to fight the perfect fight,any small mistake could have been fatal.

I can also see Liston give troubles to Lewis. The man had a very solid jab, was hard to outbox and punched with extremely bad intentions.

Lewis vs Ali , I don't know, honestly, I can see it go both ways.

Ps: Also a prime Tyson could have defeated Lewis IMO

Last edited by B-Bomber; 12-04-2012 at 04:16 AM.
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#34
Old 12-04-2012, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by B-Bomber View Post
Nice post, I though disagree with some of your analysis.

You describe Louis as if he was a face first brawler, while he actually was cautious, had a very good defense and loved to set up traps with his footwork and lateral movement.

In my opinion it'd have been a slow fight for the first 4-5 rounds. Lewis would have struggled to adjust his jab-right hand combination, for Louis head movement was hard to time.
Louis would have tried to go to the body through lateral movement, stepping in and out.

In order to win Lewis would need to fight the perfect fight,any small mistake could have been fatal.

I can also see Liston give troubles to Lewis. The man had a very solid jab, was hard to outbox and punched with extremely bad intentions.

Lewis vs Ali , I don't know, honestly, I can see it go both ways.

Ps: Also a prime Tyson could have defeated Lewis IMO
Ya, it took a lot of effort for me to write actual break downs without trolling. It wasn't the best and I am obviously a big Lewis fan, but at least I tried.

I can see your POV regarding Liston/Tyson. I definitely see it being 50.50 or worst against Ali. We have to agree to disagree on Louis. I know Louis is a big fan favorite among boxing posters on all the sites but Louis (in my opinion) just give up too much of a physical advantage to someone like Lennox, who is not only big but also very skilled.
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#35
Old 12-04-2012, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
Thank you my friend. I only pick on them with those who seek to falsely overrate them and are consistently unreasonable. Wlad is an all time great based on his skills, longevity and beating the best out there. Vittles might make my 25 spot only because his comp has been significantly weaker and he's never beaten the best fighter in his division. Hard to argue though that both would be top fighters or contenders in any era. They're great fighters, but only one is an all time great in my opinion.
I also admit Wladimir is an ATG, but I want to hear people's opinions on this.

I feel a large part of why Wladimir was able to come back from not 1 but 3 brutal defeats is because of the era he was in.
The lack of heavy punching gatekeepers and the lack of star power enabled him to take the path of least Resistance so to speak back to the top.

Wladimir was given yet another shot at glory against Samuel Peter in a title eliminator DESPITE getting knocked out in 2 of his last 5 fights and looking very bad against Williamson. The reason being, despite the brutal setbacks, in the mid 2000's the utter lack of star power means that Wlad was still the most marketable star besides Samuel Peter in the Heavyweight division, hence giving Wlad a shot at title elimination almost right away.

If Wlad was knocked out 3 times in the early 90's, the path back to the top would have been sprinkled with vicious fighters like Bruno,Morrison,Ruddock,Mercer, Mccall. Wladimir would most likely had to win all of those fights in order to even get a shot at a Lennox or a Bowe. Now can CURRENT WLADIMIR beat Morrison,Bruno,Ruddock,Mccall? Most likely.
Will I pick the early 2000's KO victim version of Wladimir against any of them? At best? 50-50 fights.

If WLADIMIR had suffered the brutal defeats he did during the 90's era instead of the 2000's, what would most likely have happened is a fourth ko and an early retirement.


Once again, does this record seem like the record of someone who is worthy of a title shot/eliminator?

Corrie Sanders: Lost
Fabio Eduardo Moli: Won
Danell Nicholson: Won, was flooered, looked bad.
Lamon Brewster: Lost
Eliseo Castillo: Won

TITLE ELIMINATOR:
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#36
Old 12-05-2012, 08:19 AM
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You don't need to apologize for putting Joe Frazier in the top 10. He's an excellent fighter, one of the best of all time.

Just because Foreman beat Frazier with ease, doesn't automatically make Foreman a better fighter than Frazier. It's just a natural consequence of their fighting styles.

Foreman was a brawler and Frazier was a swarmer. Frazier wins based on approaching fighters, but Foreman wins based on fighters approaching him.
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#37
Old 12-18-2012, 01:34 PM
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1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. George Foreman
5. Larry Holmes
6. Mike Tyson
7. Joe Frazier
8. Sonny Liston
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Evander Holyfield
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#38
Old 12-18-2012, 02:39 PM
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Great thread JAB! Just gonna bang this out without much thought so might change it bafter a wee think but i like it like this

Ali
Tyson
Foreman
Liston
Louis
Holmes
Holyfield
Lewis
Frazier
Bowe
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#39
Old 12-18-2012, 03:56 PM
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Ali
Louis
Marciano
Dempsey
Liston
Lewis
Foreman
Frazier
Tyson
Tunney
Holmes
V Klitschko
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#40
Old 12-18-2012, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bodyshot3 View Post
Ali
Louis
Marciano
Dempsey
Liston
Lewis
Foreman
Frazier
Tyson
Tunney
Holmes
V Klitschko

Marciano number 3 on a h2h list? I'd pick at least 6 of the fighters you have below him to beat him h2h.
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