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View Poll Results: Is there such thing as a Lucky Punch?
Yes there is such thing as a Lucky Punch 25 19.69%
No there is no such thing as a Lucky Punch 45 35.43%
Yes there is such thing as a Lucky Punch, but Marquez punch was not Lucky 57 44.88%
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll

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#131
Old 12-10-2012, 03:01 PM
Marvellous1
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Originally Posted by Nekronicle View Post
Ignoring the fact that this is not Pacman, and ignoring everything else that surrounded that KO (trip forcing the guard to be dropped, JMM getting outboxed, JMM throwing that same punch at the 10 second mark as if it was in fact a hail mary), the Overhand right is textbook agaisnt a southpaw....JMM did what any boxer should do against a southpaw...replace JMM with any fighter who knows basics, and that punch would have got thrown.



lol, I have replied to several posts praising there reasoning...I have not to posts that say there are such thing as Lucky punches in boxing, but is incapable of providing a legit example of there definition...



haha, even JMMs trainer was surprised, and described it as a phenomena... so for me to define why i consider it a lucky punch is hardly outlandish. Marquez WAS all those things..at this point in his career, he is an old slow shadow of his former self.. the PED's have increased his power , and thats his only improvement. Other than that, Pacman was outboxing, a boxer.

And i am not arguing that Marquez didnt know what he was doing, overhand right agaisnt a southpaw is a textbook punch.... the fact i knockd out Pacman cold though.. IS LUCK...im confident that JMM would of thrown that punch at that moment even if Pacquiao wasnt rushing in...becuase he threw that exact punch at the 10 second mark, with on clear intention other than hoping Pac would rush into the fist.
And there we have it. The veil has been dropped. With a little goading, the pseudo-sensible opinion has descended into cries of "PEDs!". It's obvious you don't want convincing otherwise because your mind is made up. You can't accept that Pac was knocked out cold and there just HAS to be some other explanation. Right? It was lucky! It was PEDs! IT JUST SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED!!! Well you've made yourself pretty clear. But in most people's opinion, Marquez deserves full credit for hanging tough, preparing well and taking advantage of Pacquiao's bad habits (yes, he drops his hands when throwing punches. Trip or no trip!)... oh and laying Pacquiao out like a cheap rug.
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#132
Old 12-10-2012, 03:15 PM
kalandagan
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You are asking if there is a lucky punch in boxing!?!?!?!?

It is what boxers DO! They train to hit something. Luck can only be considered if the circumstances involved is not governed or influenced by any means. Winning the lottery is luck, hitting somebody's jaw/chin is not because that's what you aim for in the first place and you do it by whatever means possible (training,feint,ruse,bait,etc.). Even if they were fighting with blindfolds luck would not a part in it because they stay within a confined space and, given time, will eventually hit each other (statistics can explain this better).
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#133
Old 12-10-2012, 03:15 PM
Doc Holliday
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Originally Posted by KingKhan1 View Post
Firstly, even manny and Freddie have said it was a great punch. Marquez sacrificed a lot of speed last night to gain that one punch power. In the previous fights manny always landed more, but marquez was more competitive stat wise. He found out in round 3 that he could hurt manny and kept trying to set him up. This is why in the three rounds after first knockdown he got hit flush over and over by manny. Damn marquez was zeroing in with that right hand, and manny took no notice! Any boxer that gets ko'd like manny did has a part to play in it, but marquez trained to have that kind of power, and his strategy was to make manny pay more heavily for his mistakes. Marquez body work was genius and manny became over zealous after breaking marquez nose. He should have known a broken nose can't stop marquez, damn three knockdowns in a round couldn't halt this fella. I seriously think PAC fans need to accept that marqez is the superior man, end of.
This ......
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#134
Old 12-10-2012, 03:32 PM
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There is video of JMM working on this punch. This is just a sad way to try to discredit it by listing other fights. Pac got destroyed end of story!
This right here
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#135
Old 12-10-2012, 03:48 PM
Doc Holliday
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Originally Posted by Marvellous1 View Post
I'll bite on this thread. The one thing the starter failed to mention in favour of focusing on how he thought the fight was panning out, is that Marquez took advantage of something Pacquiao does over and over again. That's punch while stepping in simultaneously. He also repeatedly lunges. I saw an analysis on Pacman and his supposed improvement. He does this three punch "right-left-right" combo while running forwards. He did it to Cotto and landed but had tried it on Marquez in '08 and didn't but nearly got knocked down. Marquez didn't need to set anything up. He created the perfect distance with a little shuffle back, waited Manny's habitual lunge starting with right (where he also drops his left before firing everyday time), then instead stepping back or the side, he stepped forward and delivered the overland right. Nothing lucky about.

If you're going to talk about circumstance, then you might as well bring up the fact they both made it to the ring at the same time as there was no guarantee for that either. The fact is, Marquez knows Pacquiao better than any opponent and knows his habits. He knows Pac responds to feints which is hobble dropped him the first time. He knows Pacquiao lunges and dropped him again. It was experience, study and the uncanny timing amd ability to take advantage of an opportunity as only a great boxer can. The fact that Pac stumbled is unfortunate for him as it might have changed the effect of the punch. But nothing about the delivery(as it happened AFTER Pacquiao makes his move) can be associated with luck.

Are there lucky punches? For me a punch can only be described as lucky if it's thrown without any remote idea of where your opponent is, ie. in the dark. Those seeking solace about this fight should do it elsewhere.
And this.. ...
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#136
Old 12-10-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekronicle View Post
Ignoring the fact that this is not Pacman, and ignoring everything else that surrounded that KO (trip forcing the guard to be dropped, JMM getting outboxed, JMM throwing that same punch at the 10 second mark as if it was in fact a hail mary), the Overhand right is textbook agaisnt a southpaw....JMM did what any boxer should do against a southpaw...replace JMM with any fighter who knows basics, and that punch would have got thrown.
Goddamn you're beyond stupid.

1. It wasn't an overhand right it was a short straight right hand

2. All you gotta do is press play and you'll see JMM practicing that same counter he landed on Pac. Same timing, angle, same everything.
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#137
Old 12-10-2012, 04:04 PM
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I believe in bad defense and sour grapes
Wahaha! And finally this.
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#138
Old 12-10-2012, 04:06 PM
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Luck is always involved when dedication and hard work is in tact.
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#139
Old 12-10-2012, 04:19 PM
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No. If you throw a punch then you intend to hit someone with it, if you hit them then you did what you intended.

It would be lucky if you tripped over your shoe lace and KOed someone by falling into them.
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#140
Old 12-10-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvellous1 View Post
And there we have it. The veil has been dropped. With a little goading, the pseudo-sensible opinion has descended into cries of "PEDs!". It's obvious you don't want convincing otherwise because your mind is made up. You can't accept that Pac was knocked out cold and there just HAS to be some other explanation. Right? It was lucky! It was PEDs! IT JUST SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED!!! Well you've made yourself pretty clear. But in most people's opinion, Marquez deserves full credit for hanging tough, preparing well and taking advantage of Pacquiao's bad habits (yes, he drops his hands when throwing punches. Trip or no trip!)... oh and laying Pacquiao out like a cheap rug.
lolllll there has been no veil... If you dont think PEDs played a part in the power that Marquez has you are delusional. I accept that he was Knocked out, I am fully aware he was Knocked out.....buttttt still Luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalandagan View Post
You are asking if there is a lucky punch in boxing!?!?!?!?

It is what boxers DO! They train to hit something. Luck can only be considered if the circumstances involved is not governed or influenced by any means. Winning the lottery is luck, hitting somebody's jaw/chin is not because that's what you aim for in the first place and you do it by whatever means possible (training,feint,ruse,bait,etc.). Even if they were fighting with blindfolds luck would not a part in it because they stay within a confined space and, given time, will eventually hit each other (statistics can explain this better).
Thats like arguing probability, and using it as a measure of the expectation that an event will occur. I see probability as a statistical way to measure luck, if you are a subjectivists, which i am. Applying that theory to this, the expert knowledge aspect in which JMM did train to land that textbook punch eveyr boxer should train for when fighting a southpaw, and liklihood of that punch actually completing its intention.

I measured JMMs probability of actually landing that punch as high enough odds to consider it luck, based on his performance throughout the fight, and the fact he GAMBLED ON THE EXACT SAME PUNCH AT THE 10 SECOND MARK, AND FAILED.

Thats like arguing that putting $10.00 on 32 on a roulette wheel..if it hits is Luck vs Probability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light_Speed View Post
Goddamn you're beyond stupid.

1. It wasn't an overhand right it was a short straight right hand

2. All you gotta do is press play and you'll see JMM practicing that same counter he landed on Pac. Same timing, angle, same everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage84 View Post
No. If you throw a punch then you intend to hit someone with it, if you hit them then you did what you intended.

It would be lucky if you tripped over your shoe lace and KOed someone by falling into them.
lol dude, JMM wasnt even fully able to complete that punch because Manny's face unpredictably free-falled onto his fist. You could throw that same punch 239874239872398 times and it can hit, but do you honestly think every time it lands its going to be a KO? I dont think so, thats where LUCK comes into play, (or probability if you want to make it a little more technical), there are so many variables that were involved in that specific KO, that i find the probability of it happening high enough to yield it as LUCK.
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