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#31
Old 12-10-2012, 03:39 PM
Michael Paine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crold1 View Post
Dariusz won the lineal crown from Hill, tied the record for lineal consecutive defenses, set the record for consecutive defenses of a belt in class, had an extra alphabelt at Cruiser (like Hill) and beat pretty much the same quality opp. Hill's resume hardly awesome and Dariusz beat him one of the best win of his career (Maske). And beat him going away.

Tunney has a very valid point on this and it is a strong case of inherent U.S. bias on face.
Hill won his first world title 10 years before that fight, 7 year before Dariusz won his. He won his last title at the age of 42. The WBO title wasn't considered a major title either at that time.
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#32
Old 12-10-2012, 03:41 PM
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Boxing HOF sucks, its just a popularity contest, not even based 1 bit on Merit

There is no way Gatti belongs
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#33
Old 12-10-2012, 03:45 PM
Michael Paine
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happy holidays, great poster - sugarsmosley 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Crushin View Post
Boxing HOF sucks, its just a popularity contest, not even based 1 bit on Merit

There is no way Gatti belongs
Well the clue's in the name isn't it, it's not called the Hall Of Achievements.
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#34
Old 12-10-2012, 03:47 PM
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I totally agree with your p4p rankings, Pac is definitely above Floyd. - Neutral 
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Originally Posted by Own3d View Post
Hill won his first world title 10 years before that fight, 7 year before Dariusz won his. He won his last title at the age of 42. The WBO title wasn't considered a major title either at that time.
The difference in their achievements is negligible. And who says it wasn't major? Depends on who wore it. Just because HBO and Ring said so didn't make it so. ABC, CBS, and Showtime never had trouble treating the WBO has just as valid as any other alphabelt.
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#35
Old 12-10-2012, 03:50 PM
Russian Crushin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Own3d View Post
Well the clue's in the name isn't it, it's not called the Hall Of Achievements.
But it is a hall of achievement, thats what the Hall is in competitive sports

To have a guy like Gatti get in but not even Dariusz like discussed in this thread is a joke. It completely dilutes the names that are in there for merit
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#36
Old 12-10-2012, 03:53 PM
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congrats to Hill
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#37
Old 12-10-2012, 03:55 PM
crold1
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I totally agree with your p4p rankings, Pac is definitely above Floyd. - Neutral 
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Originally Posted by Russian Crushin View Post
But it is a hall of achievement, thats what the Hall is in competitive sports

To have a guy like Gatti get in but not even Dariusz like discussed in this thread is a joke. It completely dilutes the names that are in there for merit
I didn't vote for Hill, Dariusz, or Gatti. All voters approach different. I would say there is a case for both that got in this year (Yuh should have been in years ago).

The Hall is a mix of fame and achievement, as it is in most sports, baseball being by far the most stringent and critical (and, yes, self important). Inductions have been fairly strong for the last six years. Strength of first year names is a huge driver. It does a pretty good job for the most part (i.e. there are plenty of guys stuck on ballot who SHOULD be in but really not many who SHOULDN'T be in that are).

Next year, Oscar, Tito, and Calzaghe are the 1st year guys. Debates about anyone else might as well be postponed until 2015 ballots come out. Next year is already over.
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#38
Old 12-10-2012, 03:55 PM
The Big Dunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crold1 View Post
The difference in their achievements is negligible. And who says it wasn't major? Depends on who wore it. Just because HBO and Ring said so didn't make it so. ABC, CBS, and Showtime never had trouble treating the WBO has just as valid as any other alphabelt.
But be honest, them giving the WBO credibility was more about getting ratings than the actual prestige of the belt. Thats my point about the level of competition. Dariusz had plenty of fights to make here, he just chose not to come to get some. Perhaps that is part of why he didn't get in.
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#39
Old 12-10-2012, 03:59 PM
crold1
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I totally agree with your p4p rankings, Pac is definitely above Floyd. - Neutral 
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Originally Posted by Big Dunn View Post
But be honest, them giving the WBO credibility was more about getting ratings than the actual prestige of the belt. Thats my point about the level of competition. Dariusz had plenty of fights to make here, he just chose not to come to get some. Perhaps that is part of why he didn't get in.
I think that you just hit on what makes this a valid discussion: Hill beat so-so comp mostly in the U.S. DM beat them overseas. Both were big on stats and low on super wins. THAT is the whole argument about bias because neither really achieved more than the other.

That is where a U.S. dominant voting pool in an "international" Hall becomes an issue.
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#40
Old 12-10-2012, 04:03 PM
The Big Dunn
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No Message - Sugar Booger ;) - QuebecSTAR2 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crold1 View Post
I think that you just hit on what makes this a valid discussion: Hill beat so-so comp mostly in the U.S. DM beat them overseas. Both were big on stats and low on super wins. THAT is the whole argument about bias because neither really achieved more than the other.

That is where a U.S. dominant voting pool in an "international" Hall becomes an issue.
I see your point. All I can say is the US is where the best comp is. So its understandable that a guy who swims a mile in the ocean gets in before a guy who swims a mile in an olympic pool.
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