Could somebody defend Mike Tyson as an ATG for me? - Page 3

IronDanHamza

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigStereotype

He was percolating and then Douglas happened and then he never got it back. If he had held it together, he would have completely cleaned up the division. Like completely. Not having Holyfield on his ledger (post-prison mike doesn't even factor into his ATG status imo) is a huge, huge, huge blow. Even if Holyfield had beaten him, as long as the fight had been competitive, it would be a massive boon to his status.

Mike Tyson's HW division was a very short one. And his division, while it lasted, was completely and utterly dominated.

When he came on the scene in the early-mid 80's, he beat everyone there was to fight and won every single belt. He didn't duck anyone, fought everyone, and pretty much destroyed everyone.

The fact he did this at 20 years of age is what makes it even more impressive.

BigStereotype

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronDanHamza

Mike Tyson's HW division was a very short one. And his division, while it lasted, was completely and utterly dominated.

When he came on the scene in the early-mid 80's, he beat everyone there was to fight and won every single belt. He didn't duck anyone, fought everyone, and pretty much destroyed everyone.

The fact he did this at 20 years of age is what makes it even more impressive.

We're arguing the same point, I just disagree with the use of the word "domination." To me, domination is a truly extended period of excellence. Joe Louis dominated. Carlos Monzon dominated. Mike Tyson was really, really hot and never got that back.

Scott9945 · 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.thraz

thats silly.

douglas was a club fighter. why did the champ fight a club fighter?

'cause he had cleaned out the division.

Tyson hadn't fought Evander Holyfield yet. He was next after Douglas. So he hadn't really cleaned out the division.

mr.thraz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott9945

Tyson hadn't fought Evander Holyfield yet. He was next after Douglas. So he hadn't really cleaned out the division.

holyfield was a cruiserweight who no took seriosly as a hw, the fact that tyson had cleaned out the division was the only reason there was talke about holy vs. tyson.

Scott9945

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.thraz

holyfield was a cruiserweight who no took seriosly as a hw, the fact that tyson had cleaned out the division was the only reason there was talke about holy vs. tyson.

Holyfield had left cruiserweight over two years before and was 6-0 against decent heavyweight opposition. The only people who didn't take him seriously were myopic Tyson fans who assumed he was invincible. Holyfield was clearly better than anyone Tyson had already fought.

mr.thraz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott9945

Holyfield had left cruiserweight over two years before and was 6-0 against decent heavyweight opposition. The only people who didn't take him seriously were myopic Tyson fans who assumed he was invincible. Holyfield was clearly better than anyone Tyson had already fought.

no one took him seriuosly as a threat to tyson, or as a hw no matter his wins.

his own team said after his lose to bowe that they didn't think he would have made it as far as he did as a hw and where only chasing a tyson payday.

of course holyfield hearing this fired them and hired manny stewart.

even as a cruiser weight he was thought of as a blownup light heavyweight, who hadn't had enough fights to challange for the cw title when he did. if it wasnt for the fact the the champion at cruisr was at the time, infact, a blown up light heavy weight and (the diviston being new) needed names and fights, he would have never gotten the chance to fight for a title in only his 12th pro fight.

holyfeild was a complete suprise at every point in his career. no one thought he'd win at cruiser, no one thought he'd win a title so early, no one thought he'd beat quawi twice, no one thought he'd fight well at heavy, no one thought he'd beat douglas, no one thought he'd be a legend at heavy weight, no one thought he'd comback from a heart attack dignosis, and no one thought he'd beat mike tyson.

saying:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott9945

The only people who didn't take him seriously were myopic Tyson fans who assumed he was invincible.

is really a diservice to holyfield who really was (pretty much) the only one who thought he had a shot.

Scott9945

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.thraz

no one took him seriuosly as a threat to tyson, or as a hw no matter his wins.

his own team said after his lose to bowe that they didn't think he would have made it as far as he did as a hw and where only chasing a tyson payday.

of course holyfield hearing this fired them and hired manny stewart.

even as a cruiser weight he was thought of as a blownup light heavyweight, who hadn't had enough fights to challange for the cw title when he did. if it wasnt for the fact the the champion at cruisr was at the time, infact, a blown up light heavy weight and (the diviston being new) needed names and fights, he would have never gotten the chance to fight for a title in only his 12th pro fight.

holyfeild was a complete suprise at every point in his career. no one thought he'd win at cruiser, no one thought he'd win a title so early, no one thought he'd beat quawi twice, no one thought he'd fight well at heavy, no one thought he'd beat douglas, no one thought he'd be a legend at heavy weight, no one thought he'd comback from a heart attack dignosis, and no one thought he'd beat mike tyson.

saying:

is really a diservice to holyfield who really was (pretty much) the only one who thought he had a shot.

Your memories of this are a lot different than mine. Most thought that Evander would eventually win the cruiserweight title. He was not a blown up light heavy. Calling Qawi a blown up lightheavyweight is ridiculous. And Holyfield was the betting favorite when he fought Douglas. Yet "no one thought he would beat Douglas". Simply false.

joseph5620

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronDanHamza

Mike Tyson's HW division was a very short one. And his division, while it lasted, was completely and utterly dominated.

When he came on the scene in the early-mid 80's, he beat everyone there was to fight and won every single belt. He didn't duck anyone, fought everyone, and pretty much destroyed everyone.

The fact he did this at 20 years of age is what makes it even more impressive.

I believe that has a lot to do with why he is ranked highly by so many people. For a while he did look invincible and it got to the point where his opponents just attempted to survive. Douglas was a 40-1 underdog for a reason and that might still be the biggest upset of all time.

joseph5620

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott9945

Your memories of this are a lot different than mine. Most thought that Evander would eventually win the cruiserweight title. He was not a blown up light heavy. Calling Qawi a blown up lightheavyweight is ridiculous. And Holyfield was the betting favorite when he fought Douglas. Yet "no one thought he would beat Douglas". Simply false.

Add to that Douglas was fat and unprepared. Even though Douglas beat Tyson I suspect most people saw it as luck opposed to Douglas being a fighter who was on Evander Holyfield's level. Douglas had some embarrassing losses before the Tyson fight and I'm sure that wasn't forgotten.

Scott9945

Quote:

Originally Posted by joseph5620

Add to that Douglas was fat and unprepared. Even though Douglas beat Tyson I suspect most people saw it as luck opposed to Douglas being a fighter who was on Evander Holyfield's level. Douglas had some embarrassing losses before the Tyson fight and I'm sure that wasn't forgotten.

I remember that fight very well because I was looking to get a bet down on Holyfield. Even though the expert predictions were close, Holyfield was always the betting favorite. Of course after the disastrous weigh in for Douglas he went to be an over 2-1 favorite when the fight actually happened.