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#41
Old 11-27-2012, 01:51 PM
BigStereotype
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Originally Posted by eli porter View Post
Those are both fair points but we've all seen what happens when a fighter takes the padding out of his gloves. I reckon the chances of wlad rendering him unconscious or breaking sullivans jaw probably outweigh the broken hand issue.

The style of bare knuckle fighting is hard to comment on (I think the only bare knuckle fighting i've seen is between gypsies) but I don't personally imagine there to be enough of a difference to discount wlad's technical and physical prowess. Would it be different if we were talking about Frazier? I don't think it should be, is it possible you underestmiating wlad's willingness to play rough?

Also, how long are these 45 rounds each? sometimes maybe only a few seconds depending on how often someone goes down. Even if wlad gets wrestled to the ground he'll be allowed to get up, the likely hood of him not being able to get off a few clean shots between being pushed to the ground and manhandled are very slim.
Maybe so, but I think that it would take Wlad a few rounds to get a measure of confidence throwing without gloves and by that time, he'd have been through a grueling ugly affair.

Honestly, yes, I think it would be different we were talking about Joe Frazier or Jack Dempsey or even Vitali. I'm a Wlad fan, and he's obviously not a pussy but I do think there is an innate roughness that he lacks that would be way more important in the bareknuckle area than his strengths. He's a very "clean" kind of fighter who's style doesn't really translate to that era. Now I've obviously never seen an 1880's bk match, but I feel like I can get a picture of it from what I've read. Move the time frame forward to 1905-1915 and I think Wlad could be a champ. Jeffries would be a problem, but I don't like Johnson's chances. Johnson relied a lot on his own prodigious size and strength (for the era). Actually, while it's aesthetically different, what Wlad and Johnson do in the ring is pretty similar. Wlad is just bigger, stronger with a LOT more power. Fitzsimmons and Langford would just be too small for sure.
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#42
Old 07-22-2013, 06:55 PM
Rspen46
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Default Not with his style

Jim Corbett beat him because he had more of a modern style of boxing, he was fast, had a solid job & decent power in both hands, & could move, Corbett would fair better if as you said, just dropped them into a ring from that time, but with training as mentioned in today's standards with his old time toughness, & power he did have naturally, he could be champ, Corbett might have made a the top 5 but I doubt he outboxes the champs of today.
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#43
Old 07-22-2013, 06:58 PM
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Default Movie

I saw a movie once, don't know how well it applies to reality, but a man went back in time, & he could fight, he faced off against a top fighter in that day of Sullivan, who knows it might even have been John L. anyway, as they squared off to do battle, the modern guy outboxed him easily, landed many more punches overall, but had trouble hurting him & once the old guy landed he would put him down everytime, but eventually the Modern fighter's style was just too much & landed too many blows, too fast & quick for the old style guy.

So that's how I see it happening, and to that, the Klitchkos power or a guy alike Tua and Sullivan just can't beat them.
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#44
Old 07-22-2013, 10:49 PM
bklynboy
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Originally Posted by Rspen46 View Post
I saw a movie once, don't know how well it applies to reality, but a man went back in time, & he could fight, he faced off against a top fighter in that day of Sullivan, who knows it might even have been John L. anyway, as they squared off to do battle, the modern guy outboxed him easily, landed many more punches overall, but had trouble hurting him & once the old guy landed he would put him down everytime, but eventually the Modern fighter's style was just too much & landed too many blows, too fast & quick for the old style guy.

So that's how I see it happening, and to that, the Klitchkos power or a guy alike Tua and Sullivan just can't beat them.
Take a look at London Prize Rules fighting. It's closer to MMA than to modern boxing. The sport has had several distinct era. The classic era from 1920 to 1980. After 1980 belts replaced crowns; top fighters aren't fighting each other; nor are they fighting as much. It's also a lot cleaner, safer, more rules oriented sport. (See fights from the 1950s and earlier to get a hint of how much rougher it was.)

The era from London Prize Rules to the 1920s was a transition era and didn't really become "modern" until 1910 or so. (As far as I can tell.) And then it wasn't until the 1920s that boxing was legal everywhere, that fights were set for 15 rounds; that officials were scoring the fight; that the ref would do more than break fighters apart; that there was a neutral corner, etc...)

The low guard existed for the same reason there is a low guard in Muay Thai, in Shotokan and other fighting styles. London Prize Rules allowed sh*t like slaps, back-hands, palms, elbows were not unheard of (understatement if ever there was one), throwing someone to the ground was part of the game. Comparing London Prize Rules to today's boxing is like comparing the contact in hockey with basketball. ... OK, maybe that's an exaggeration. :-)

Still, from what little I know of LRR (and I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination) it was a lot rougher, a lot tougher than you make it out to be.

EXAMPLE:

"That in future no spi kes (this was filtered out) be used in fighting boots except those authorized by the Pugilistic Benevolent Association, which shall not exceed three-eights of an inch from the sole of the boot, and shall not be less than one-eight of an inch broad at the point; and, it shall be in the power of the referee to alter, or file in any way he pleases, spi kes which shall not accord with the above dimensions, even to filing them away altogether."

"That where a man shall have his antagonist across the ropes in such a position as to be helpless, and to endanger his life by strangulation or apoplexy, it shall be in the power of the referee to direct the seconds to take their man away, and thus conclude the round, and that the man or his seconds refusing to obey the direction of the referee, shall be deemed the loser."

This is not to say that a LRR champion would automatically be champion today. Only that they deserve respect as well.

Last edited by bklynboy; 07-22-2013 at 10:51 PM.
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