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#1
Old 11-26-2012, 05:52 PM
4Corners
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Default People need to stop with this s**t......

Mayweather and Pacquiao are STILL 2 of the Top 5 fighters in the world. Along with Ward, Martinez, and probably Donaire/Marquez, they are still two of the top fighters in the sport.

People are acting like Floyd and Manny are way past it or something. Look here, Floyd hasn't been prime since 2007, has been past prime-still good since 2009. His defense, hand speed, footwork, and overall skill level is about the same it was in 2009-2010 against Marquez and Mosley. Now who knows what he'll be like when he returns next year probably, but as of right now we can say Floyd is still one of the top fighters in the world, if not the top fighter still. He went up to 154 lbs, a weight he's not comfortable at, and beat a bigger fighter by a wide UD, and the #1 SWW at the time.

And Manny, he hasn't been prime since 2009, has been about the same fighter he was in 2010 against Clottey and Margarito. The only difference is his past two fights, he fought fighters who actually move and don't stand right in front of him, like the past prime slow plodding Margarito and the human punching bag that was Clottey in that fight. He's coming off another close fight against Marquez (what's new???) and coming off what should have been a clear UD win against a prime/top 10 P4P fighter in Bradley. Manny's speed and skill is the same as it was against Clottey and Margarito in 2010, the big difference was the opponent standing in the ring with him. You mad Marquez, who uses footwork and counter punching and always troubles Manny, and Bradley who didn't just rush straight forward the entire night and used footwork and defense against Manny. And the times Bradley did decide to try and trade with Manny, he got caught repeatedly with left hands from Manny.

The point is....people talk about Floyd and Manny like they're past it completely, and they aren't. Aside from Floyd, there's not one fighter from 140-147 that I'd favor over Manny, and Marquez is a 50-50 fight like it's always been. And there's no one from 140-147 I'd favor over Mayweather.

Both Manny and Floyd are still two of the top fighters in the world.
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#2
Old 11-26-2012, 05:54 PM
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"Fighter Of The Decade" Manny Pacquiao is still a threat.
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#3
Old 11-26-2012, 05:56 PM
4Corners
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I'm just saying people talk about the two like it's still not the best fight in the world right now, and a fight against two of the top fighters in the sport, it still is.
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#4
Old 11-26-2012, 05:57 PM
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Pac is 1 fight away from being finished
he whipped Bradley easily and still looked dead tired at the end
Floyd beat Cotto easily, but still got hit way more than he shoulda
both are over the hill and neither is the best in the world anymore
people are right to brush them off nowadays
they're just names now, they're not really fighters anymore
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#5
Old 11-26-2012, 06:01 PM
4Corners
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Napier View Post
Pac is 1 fight away from being finished
he whipped Bradley easily and still looked dead tired at the end
Floyd beat Cotto easily, but still got hit way more than he shoulda
both are over the hill and neither is the best in the world anymore
people are right to brush them off nowadays
they're just names now, they're not really fighters anymore
I love how they're over the hill and names now, and you just gloss over "Oh he whupped Bradley though but he looked tired at the end", and "Floyd beat Cotto easily but got hit way more than he should have".......

Yeah they're just names now.....nevermind one whupped a Top 10 P4P and unbeaten fighter, and the other went up to a weight he's not even comfortable at and easily beat the #1 fighter there.

People can't have it both ways. If they're over the hill, than it would have shown in their performances. Manny struggled with Marquez, always has even in his prime against him in 2004 and 2008.
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#6
Old 11-26-2012, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Corners View Post
I'm just saying people talk about the two like it's still not the best fight in the world right now, and a fight against two of the top fighters in the sport, it still is.
^That's not quite what folks are *****ing about.

Relative ranking isn't the same as absolute skill.
Folks wanted to see the two undisputed best P4P fighters
meet in their undisputed prime.

Those two are still top dogs, but it can be argued they've
each lost a step since 2010. They've aged, and there's the
damage sustained from fighting other boxers since.

Worst is the insult to the fans' collective intelligence: one
issue after another crops up to delay this crap. Pac wants
or doesn't want this. Floyd wants or doesn't want that...
It's worse than putting up with a tease
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#7
Old 11-26-2012, 06:06 PM
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Jack Napler getting his excuses ready in case Pac gets outboxed..."Pac may be shot"
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#8
Old 11-26-2012, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Corners View Post
I love how they're over the hill and names now, and you just gloss over "Oh he whupped Bradley though but he looked tired at the end", and "Floyd beat Cotto easily but got hit way more than he should have".......

Yeah they're just names now.....nevermind one whupped a Top 10 P4P and unbeaten fighter, and the other went up to a weight he's not even comfortable at and easily beat the #1 fighter there.

People can't have it both ways. If they're over the hill, than it would have shown in their performances. Manny struggled with Marquez, always has even in his prime against him in 2004 and 2008.
that's the point, it did show
Pac's legs, his speed, and his stamina are going fast
Floyd's legs are going, he's fresher than Pac is otherwise
why are you so desperate to prop them up?
Pac will be done after Marquez 4, if JMM don't win Pac's next foe will
Floyd will last longer despite being older due to his style
but he's fading too, and cares nothing about making good fights
they're no longer deserving of the hype they get

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasttimes View Post
Jack Napler getting his excuses ready in case Pac gets outboxed..."Pac may be shot"
this isn't a new opinion, been saying it for a yr now Turbo
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#9
Old 11-26-2012, 06:10 PM
4Corners
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horge View Post
^That's not quite what folks are *****ing about.

Relative ranking isn't the same as absolute skill.
Folks wanted to see the two undisputed best P4P fighters
meet in their undisputed prime.

Those two are still top dogs, but it can be argued they've
each lost a step since 2010. They've aged, and there's the
damage sustained from fighting other boxers since.

Worst is the insult to the fans' collective intelligence: one
issue after another crops up to delay this crap. Pac wants
or doesn't want this. Floyd wants or doesn't want that...
It's worse than putting up with a tease
They never could have met in their absolute prime. People are really tripping if they though Floyd was prime in 2009-2010 at the beginning of his comeback. Floyd's last fight where I'd say he was for sure 100% prime was Hatton. He lost some of legs after his first layoff, but since 2009-2010 he looks like the same fighter, same speed, same ability.

If it doesn't happen in 2013, who knows what they'll be like in 2014. but if Pacquiao wins another close fight against Marquez or beats him 100% handily this time, it's still a huge fight in 2013.

I'm just saying they are still two of the best fighters in the world.
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#10
Old 11-26-2012, 06:19 PM
4Corners
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Napier View Post
that's the point, it did show
Pac's legs, his speed, and his stamina are going fast
Floyd's legs are going, he's fresher than Pac is otherwise
why are you so desperate to prop them up?
Pac will be done after Marquez 4, if JMM don't win Pac's next foe will
Floyd will last longer despite being older due to his style
but he's fading too, and cares nothing about making good fights
they're no longer deserving of the hype they get



this isn't a new opinion, been saying it for a yr now Turbo
You think Floyd looks that much different against Cotto than he did against Mosley or Marquez, as far as speed/footwork/overall ability??? The difference may have been the opponent. Marquez doesn't lead well, and when Floyd forced him to lead, Floyd just countered him easily and out boxed him all night. Cotto wasn't going to just let Floyd out box him, which he did several times during the fight in the center of the ring. Cotto has the style to pressure Floyd and is big enough to keep him on the ropes. Marquez wasn't going to pressure and pressure Floyd and keep him trapped on the ropes, not his style. And though Mosley was a great fight at the time Floyd fought hi, he was the #3 P4P fighter and #2 WW coming off a huge win, he was past it completely and it showed against Floyd. Floyd didn't use his legs AT ALL in that fight and just walked him down easily. Cotto has something left, unlike Mosley, and knows how to pressure much better than Marquez, who's a counter puncher first. Floyd legs, hand speed, and overall ability was the same in May 2012 as it was in 2009-2010. Was it the same as 2007......no, but they were hyping Floyd-Manny to death in 2010, and Floyd is about the same guy he was back in 2010.

You think Manny is so much different against Bradley as he was against Clottey and Margarito??? I agree Manny's slipped a bit since 2009, but he looks more or less the same fighter who won UD's against Clottey and Margarito. The difference.....Clottey and Margarito stood right in front of him the whole fight, they basically just ate punch after punch from Manny. That's why those fights were so damn easy for Manny. No one is going to beat Manny standing and attempting to trade with him. They will get KO'd or get hit over and over and lose a UD. Marquez always troubles Manny, using his footwork and defense to neutralize Manny's offense, and counters him. Bradley also used his feet more against Manny and used defense to neutralize Manny's offense at times. Still Bradley when he did attempt to stand and trade with Manny, he ate left hands all night.

I'm sorry but you can't be faded and past it, and still be beating Top 10 P4P fighters or going up in weight and beating the #1 fighters in that division.
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