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Old 11-23-2012, 02:06 PM
The Gambler1981
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Originally Posted by RajahBell View Post
These allegations have Arthur Andersen, the infamous auditing firm, potential in my view. The main difference between the treatment of Lance and boxing is independence. They have no loyalty to Lance because US Cycling pays their bills to look after hundreds of riders, whereas they have monetary incentive to keep their client, with a handful of fighters, happy and alive in boxing. Golden Boy Promotions pays them about $100,000 per fight for 8 weeks of work. That's already compromised testing standards in the name of Revenues, since Olympic Style Drug Testing is supposed to 24-7-365 days a year.

There is possibility that USADA went after Armstrong for the Publicity, after-all Lance was a Big Fish that eluded many. I remember hearing somewhere, that the USADA was interested in Revenues from Professional Sports(MLB, NFL, NBA, etc.), who are concerned about privacy and the rights of players. The Armstrong Case shows that they are the best. However, the boxing case shows that the USADA honors contracts. Anyone that will do business with them will have Prestige of having the best drug testing and enforcement body and they know that the USADA will protect their best interest.

Also, there is allegations that Lance bribed UCI. He might have thought that was enough since he passed every drug test that he took.
Lance knew USADA was on his case for a long long time and knew they were still after him, he would not have thought that was enough~

The pro sports leagues won't use USADA because they are inflexible and the pro sports leagues want much more control over the process and not getting forced into following their recommendations. So USADA will flex for boxing but not a major sports league that would be worth a lot more, that doesn't make sense.

It would be a huge scandal though if USADA bent for boxing because they have never bent in the past and that was why they were good at their job because they didn't give any athletes special treatment big name or small. If they are doing that now, they need to clean house especially at the top.

Last edited by The Gambler1981; 11-23-2012 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 11-23-2012, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Mannie Phresh View Post
So pac cum guzzlers Im still seeing some large plot holes in this floyd narrative your trying to sell. If Floyd can pay off USADA to fix tests for him why couldnt Lance Armstrong just slide them some money to get them off his back? Im pretty sure Armstrong has more money?

Its all pretty simple. Lance Armstrong doesnt have contracts with USADA. However, the US cycling community relies on USADA to run their testing.

USADA didn't even have any positive test results, they just rounded up former teammates and got their testimony. Right now its just Lance's word vs. a bunch of former teammates.
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Old 11-23-2012, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mannie Phresh View Post
Yeah anything is possible. Its the same friend of a friend said so argument used against pac though thats why you see all the retarded pac fans swarming in this threads. I mean without naming names their are yesir level retards in here on pacs nuts. It would be horrible for the sport if it came out pac or more so floyd used ped's though. Dana White would exploit the hell out of that.
You are right about that. I'm also suspicious about the costs testing. The USADA only has revenues of $15 million in 2010 while they conducted 8031 test total in 2010. That is about $1900 per test in 2010. If Golden Boy Promotions paid $100,000 for the Mayweather-Cotto fight, but they only performed 26 tests, 13 for both, then $3846 per test.

Per athlete, the US Olympic Team sent 530 athletes for the summer games, 215 athletes for the 2010 Winter games, and 100 paralympians for both winter and summer. That's a cost of about $17,800 per athlete for the 845 athletes, which does not include those who Failed to qualify. In contrast, Golden Boy apparently paid $50,000 for each fighter(Mayweather and Cotto). That's $17800 an athlete for 24-7-365 days testing compared to $50,000 for only 8 weeks of work, 24-7-62days.

No matter how we look at it Golden Boy Promotions overpays the USADA for only 8 weeks of work, IF THE $100,000 figure is correct. It might just be bad business sense for GBP??
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Old 11-23-2012, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by The Gambler1981 View Post
Lance knew USADA was on his case for a long long time and knew they were still after him, he would not have thought that was enough~
Lance passed every test that they gave him. I don't think he expected the quasi-governmental role of the Private non-profit corporation. He expected to get prosecuted by the Feds, not a private non-profit. As, noted by his lawsuit against the USADA, he believed that his rights under the Constitution were being violated.

Quote:
The pro sports leagues won't use USADA because they are inflexible and the pro sports leagues want much more control over the process and not getting forced into following their recommendations. So USADA will flex for boxing but not a major sports league that would be worth a lot more, that doesn't make sense.
USADA already flexed to boxing by agreeing to an 8 week testing period instead of 24-7-365 days of testing. When the MLB instituted its Drug Testing Policy in 2006, they distrusted the USADA because of the the lack of due process and protection of the rights of athletes. Fast Forward 2010, knowing that they failed to get a major sports league under contract, do you think USADA will bend a little to Golden Boy Promotions so that they do not miss out on the $$$$$$? And if they bent a little, do you think it might change the perception of them in the eyes of the pro-leagues?

Quote:
It would be a huge scandal though if USADA bent for boxing because they have never bent in the past and that was why they were good at their job because they didn't give any athletes special treatment big name or small. If they are doing that now, they need to clean house especially at the top.
Like, I said it has Arthur Andersen(AA) type implications if true. Arthur Andersen was the "independent" auditor of Enron and Worldcom. Their job was to make sure that the financial books of those companies were reasonably correct. However, like the USADA they were being paid by their client. So, even though the USADA or AA is supposed to be "independent" they had a conflict of interest.
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Old 11-23-2012, 03:58 PM
The Gambler1981
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respect. - mellow_mood you deserve a metal for defending the woman beater, lol, nyahahaha - Tha_Greatest always a good poster. have a beer. - jreckoning \m/ - Kenny MF Powers thanks brother - mrpain81 
great easy logical advice you gave for others on the thunderdome for trolls like me, lol, everything you stated i have stated to many people but few people would take mind of what you wrote, lol, excellent post, plain  logic to keep your composure fo - Tha_Greatest No Message - mathed thatll be 5$ - sugarsmosley 
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Originally Posted by RajahBell View Post
Lance passed every test that they gave him. I don't think he expected the quasi-governmental role of the Private non-profit corporation. He expected to get prosecuted by the Feds, not a private non-profit. As, noted by his lawsuit against the USADA, he believed that his rights under the Constitution were being violated.



USADA already flexed to boxing by agreeing to an 8 week testing period instead of 24-7-365 days of testing. When the MLB instituted its Drug Testing Policy in 2006, they distrusted the USADA because of the the lack of due process and protection of the rights of athletes. Fast Forward 2010, knowing that they failed to get a major sports league under contract, do you think USADA will bend a little to Golden Boy Promotions so that they do not miss out on the $$$$$$? And if they bent a little, do you think it might change the perception of them in the eyes of the pro-leagues?



Like, I said it has Arthur Andersen(AA) type implications if true. Arthur Andersen was the "independent" auditor of Enron and Worldcom. Their job was to make sure that the financial books of those companies were reasonably correct. However, like the USADA they were being paid by their client. So, even though the USADA or AA is supposed to be "independent" they had a conflict of interest.
Yea but that was Lance's argument but he wouldn't have need to make it if he could make them go away. Usually putting on legal pressure makes a side want to deal, they didn't.

No I don't think USADA would bend, if they did they are garbage and completely compromised their values for small time gains. As for the type of testing they do, that is the nature of boxing, there is no one to cover the cost over time to do year around so that can't happen. On the flip side most athletes train year around, boxing is a bit different guys train most heavily just in the months leading up to the fight. Now that would allow guys to game the system a bit but keep in mind they keep the results and can check back against them so the more someone gets tested the more they know about what they normally are (like Floyd who has been tested a bunch), so if a guy slips up even the littlest bit they will likely get caught up.

Yea I know the Enron story, if USADA is in the wrong it would be the biggest sports scandal of the last 25 years maybe longer.
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:04 PM
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It's only a matter of time till more witness shed lights on this allegations. This is the lance Armstrong of boxing
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by The Gambler1981 View Post
Yea but that was Lance's argument but he wouldn't have need to make it if he could make them go away. Usually putting on legal pressure makes a side want to deal, they didn't.

No I don't think USADA would bend, if they did they are garbage and completely compromised their values for small time gains. As for the type of testing they do, that is the nature of boxing, there is no one to cover the cost over time to do year around so that can't happen. On the flip side most athletes train year around, boxing is a bit different guys train most heavily just in the months leading up to the fight. Now that would allow guys to game the system a bit but keep in mind they keep the results and can check back against them so the more someone gets tested the more they know about what they normally are (like Floyd who has been tested a bunch), so if a guy slips up even the littlest bit they will likely get caught up.

Yea I know the Enron story, if USADA is in the wrong it would be the biggest sports scandal of the last 25 years maybe longer.
Did you see my previous post, above my reply to yours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RajahBell View Post
You are right about that. I'm also suspicious about the costs testing. The USADA only has revenues of $15 million in 2010 while they conducted 8031 test total in 2010. That is about $1900 per test in 2010. If Golden Boy Promotions paid $100,000 for the Mayweather-Cotto fight, but they only performed 26 tests, 13 for both, then $3846 per test.

Per athlete, the US Olympic Team sent 530 athletes for the summer games, 215 athletes for the 2010 Winter games, and 100 paralympians for both winter and summer. That's a cost of about $17,800 per athlete for the 845 athletes, which does not include those who Failed to qualify. In contrast, Golden Boy apparently paid $50,000 for each fighter(Mayweather and Cotto). That's $17800 an athlete for 24-7-365 days testing compared to $50,000 for only 8 weeks of work, 24-7-62days.

No matter how we look at it Golden Boy Promotions overpays the USADA for only 8 weeks of work, IF THE $100,000 figure is correct. It might just be bad business sense for GBP??
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:21 PM
The Gambler1981
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respect. - mellow_mood you deserve a metal for defending the woman beater, lol, nyahahaha - Tha_Greatest always a good poster. have a beer. - jreckoning \m/ - Kenny MF Powers thanks brother - mrpain81 
great easy logical advice you gave for others on the thunderdome for trolls like me, lol, everything you stated i have stated to many people but few people would take mind of what you wrote, lol, excellent post, plain  logic to keep your composure fo - Tha_Greatest No Message - mathed thatll be 5$ - sugarsmosley 
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Originally Posted by RajahBell View Post
Did you see my previous post, above my reply to yours?
If you buy something in less quantity infrequently it usually costs more. Also there would be a rush on it because if you are doing year around you just go at your own pace, while with boxing they are on a tight time table having to come up with a testing plan on the fly, not to mention they would kind of have to be fit in without them knowing beforehand.
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:27 PM
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Yea but that was Lance's argument but he wouldn't have need to make it if he could make them go away. Usually putting on legal pressure makes a side want to deal, they didn't.

No I don't think USADA would bend, if they did they are garbage and completely compromised their values for small time gains. As for the type of testing they do, that is the nature of boxing, there is no one to cover the cost over time to do year around so that can't happen. On the flip side most athletes train year around, boxing is a bit different guys train most heavily just in the months leading up to the fight. Now that would allow guys to game the system a bit but keep in mind they keep the results and can check back against them so the more someone gets tested the more they know about what they normally are (like Floyd who has been tested a bunch), so if a guy slips up even the littlest bit they will likely get caught up.

Yea I know the Enron story, if USADA is in the wrong it would be the biggest sports scandal of the last 25 years maybe longer.
Up there you're already accepting that compromises are necessary due to boxing's nature. Something like limited disclosure is just one more compromise. A necessary one, without it it's no testing at all.

Just the Morales and Quillin situations show compromises were made that wouldn't fly elsewhere. Would the Mexican ADA withhold "contaminated beef" sample results from WADA? Would they abort testing for not educating the fighters on banned substances (!?), and destroy already collected samples? In other sports these would be serious allegations, would have to be addressed pronto. Here not a peep, and nobody touched the Quillin thing for 6 months, until Hauser now.

But this is boxing, it's a backwater and assumed corrupt. You wrestle with pigs, you know you're getting dirty. You think the mainstream would be shocked that elite boxers were juicing lol? It is assumed they are. Holyfield was a bigger star, didn't really bring him down. The only reason Floyd would be a bigger story is because it came with years of fingerpointing. A cheat is bad enough, a hypocritical one is just gross.
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:39 PM
The Gambler1981
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respect. - mellow_mood you deserve a metal for defending the woman beater, lol, nyahahaha - Tha_Greatest always a good poster. have a beer. - jreckoning \m/ - Kenny MF Powers thanks brother - mrpain81 
great easy logical advice you gave for others on the thunderdome for trolls like me, lol, everything you stated i have stated to many people but few people would take mind of what you wrote, lol, excellent post, plain  logic to keep your composure fo - Tha_Greatest No Message - mathed thatll be 5$ - sugarsmosley 
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Originally Posted by HeroBando View Post
Up there you're already accepting that compromises are necessary due to boxing's nature. Something like limited disclosure is just one more compromise. A necessary one, without it it's no testing at all.

Just the Morales and Quillin situations show compromises were made that wouldn't fly elsewhere. Would the Mexican ADA withhold "contaminated beef" sample results from WADA? Would they abort testing for not educating the fighters on banned substances (!?), and destroy already collected samples? In other sports these would be serious allegations, would have to be addressed pronto. Here not a peep, and nobody touched the Quillin thing for 6 months, until Hauser now.

But this is boxing, it's a backwater and assumed corrupt. You wrestle with pigs, you know you're getting dirty. You think the mainstream would be shocked that elite boxers were juicing lol? It is assumed they are. Holyfield was a bigger star, didn't really bring him down. The only reason Floyd would be a bigger story is because it came with years of fingerpointing. A cheat is bad enough, a hypocritical one is just gross.
Limited disclosure is not close to the same thing. Is j-walking the same as setting someone on fire~ both are crimes. Drug testers only jobs are to test for drugs and disclose the results anything that compromises that is a big deal. How they decide to test matters and some ways are better than others but doing it a different way in boxing is not logical currently.

Mexico did deal with WADA and they let their Senior Mens soccer team off completely free, for the same stuff Morales got popped for and used the same excuse. So the Morales thing is not black and white there is some precedence for that.

The Holyfield stuff was pre baseball steroid scandal, people care more now, sure PED had been a problem for decades before but that was when people started to really care. You are right that boxing is a dirty corrupt game and no one would be surprised with anyone doing anything wrong. USADA isn't boxing though~
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