|11-22-2012, 09:12 AM||#11|
Join Date: Oct 2009
Quoted: 1580 Post(s)Rep Power: 92
Total Points: 4,393,586,699,389,063,168.00
Skills, heart, chin, guts, power, he had it all.
And like I said, and as a lot of you know, and as much as it pains me to say, Ramirez deserved the decision against Arguello.
I had Ramirez winning by a point (Probably means he should have won by more ) had him on the floor and outboxed him for the most part.
That in itself tells you how good of a fighter he was.
|11-23-2012, 09:54 AM||#12|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quoted: 309 Post(s)Rep Power: 67
Total Points: 947,747,105,590,814.12
They both faced stellar opposition, though Ramirez much more, Campas with Camacho, Oscar, Vargas, Tito, Luis Lopez, Oba Carr, Santos etc but Campas lost every single fight I just mentioned. He also lost nearly all his second tier level fights, such as against Vanda, Camacho Jr, Duddy, macklin, roman, and many more against journeymen level fighters.
The best he ever beat was an old Ayala, Marquez and a well past it Jorge Vaca. That's it. He really didn't win one fight against any A or B+ fighters in his whole career. He lost to every A, B and most C fighters he faced, and his best wins came against Vaca, seven years after Vaca won his last title fight, with about seven brutal, early KO losses in those seven years and very few wins. Then he beat 38 year old Ayala, in his first step up during his short comeback while out of boxing whilst in jail for 8 years. Marquez was a good, solid C+, maybe B win. That's his only one though.
Now compare Marquez to an undefeated HOF great in Rosario. Big difference in best wins. Ramirez faced HOF greats and champions Whitaker, Rosario, Arguello, Chavez, ruben Olivares, the real Hector Camacho (135 version), Boza Edwards, Terence Ali, IBF LW champ Charlie Brown, Juan M. Coggi, Ray Mancini, and others.
His best wins were against Whitaker*, Rosario, Ali, Boza Edwards and Brown, all of them good champions of Marquez' level, two of them HOF greats. Should have arguably gotten the decision against Arguello too. The decent contender guys, Ramirez always beat while Campas lost to very often. He beat great fighters like Frankie Crawford etc too, while Campas got knocked out by those level fighters.
There really is no opinion to be had here. This one isn't subjective. Ramirez fought better fighters, more HOFers, beat better fighters, more of them, didn't lose as much, didn't lose to so many bad-awful fighters, 5 of his 9 losses to current HOFers, all the rest to great champions and possible HOFers and only lost by KO once against all those guys. Campas lost twice as many and lost more by KO than Ramirez lost at all.
Ramirez clearly the better fighter.
|11-23-2012, 12:19 PM||#13|
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Middle of nowhere.
Quoted: 0 Post(s)Rep Power: 5
Total Points: 3,491.26
|Share This With Friends|
|better?, campas., jose, luis, ramirez, who's, yori|