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View Poll Results: Who do you rank higher?
Frazier has the better wins. I rate Frazier higher. 15 53.57%
Marciano has the better wins. I rate Marciano higher. 5 17.86%
Frazier has the better wins. I rate Marciano higher. 8 28.57%
Marciano has the better wins. I rate Frazier higher. 0 0%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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#31
Old 11-15-2012, 03:25 PM
CarlosG815
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I am trying to think who Frazier fought that punched as hard as Rocky, and Foreman is the only person who comes to mind. I am of the opinion that Frazier was done with his career at that point and physically did not have the same fit presence he had as a dominant heavyweight (see his wide ass vs Bugner, Foreman).

How this fight would play out is difficult, as both men had tremendous heart and power.

If they fought 3 times I imagine it would be split down the middle or the same fight everytime coming to a hard fought UD or maybe a draw. This, for me, is one of the toughest matchups to try analyzing from a fantasy fight perspective.
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#32
Old 11-15-2012, 08:21 PM
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For years i was trained by Joe Frazier, and he was a tough teacher. I'm 5'9'' and 165lbs of pure lean muscle. 3% body fat. Was a football player in high school and a lacrosse player too so im pretty sturdily built. As a pro boxer my best, if not only, asset is my chin and being tough as nails. When Joe was working the pads with me i dropped my right hand down and he nailed me with a hook. This was around 2004. I was put on my ass and dazed as hell. Joe Frazier could punch and probably did it harder than most people think. He has the better wins by far, the better competition and i think he would win h2h. Marciano NEVER fought anyone as tough or mean or powerful as Joe Frazier. Smokin' Joe could back him up all night, push him around. I mean look at Buster Mathis, Frazier tossed him around at points. He was also faster, more athletic, and more accurate that rocky.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintcar923 View Post
This is just speculation. Being that Rocky never lost and was only the victim of a flash knockdown we can only assume how he would react when faced with a bigger & arguably stronger opponent in a Frazier/Foreman. But, I'd put my money on an undefeated fighter like Rocky before I would on someone else. The saying goes that an undefeated fighter is very hard to beat because he doesn't know that he can be beat.
Frazier has experienced loss, he knows what its like to be in with someone with huge power and people with stamina. During the fight Rocky will think "wtf is this guy?" Joe will think "eh not as bad as being in here with george"
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#33
Old 11-15-2012, 09:56 PM
Scott9945
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Originally Posted by jabsRstiff View Post
I think Frazier could have beaten everyone Marciano had beaten.

I have absolutely no doubt about that.
Joe would have walked though those guys.
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#34
Old 11-15-2012, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkTerror88 View Post
For years i was trained by Joe Frazier, and he was a tough teacher. I'm 5'9'' and 165lbs of pure lean muscle. 3% body fat. Was a football player in high school and a lacrosse player too so im pretty sturdily built. As a pro boxer my best, if not only, asset is my chin and being tough as nails. When Joe was working the pads with me i dropped my right hand down and he nailed me with a hook. This was around 2004. I was put on my ass and dazed as hell. Joe Frazier could punch and probably did it harder than most people think. He has the better wins by far, the better competition and i think he would win h2h. Marciano NEVER fought anyone as tough or mean or powerful as Joe Frazier. Smokin' Joe could back him up all night, push him around. I mean look at Buster Mathis, Frazier tossed him around at points. He was also faster, more athletic, and more accurate that rocky.




Frazier has experienced loss, he knows what its like to be in with someone with huge power and people with stamina. During the fight Rocky will think "wtf is this guy?" Joe will think "eh not as bad as being in here with george"
so who are you?
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#35
Old 11-16-2012, 06:48 AM
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Who has the better resume? Frazier by a mile. He simply has the better wins and that can't be disputed and downgrading him for losing to fecking Ali and George Foreman is crazy ... I mean come on .... how do you think rocky would have done against those two??

IMO frazier would beat all 49 of rockys opponents pretty handily tbh ... walcott would be tough enough but I don't see Joe having to many problems with him, in fact I think he would handle him better than rocky did.

What about the other way round? Well I'd fancy rocky over everybody save Ali and Foreman.

Best wins? Walcott and Ali respectively (can anybody seriously say a win over walcott is better than ali???)

And then we come to frazier's losses .... twice to Ali and twice to foreman. I don't see rocky doing any better tbh. In fact I don't think he beats the ali from FOTC so he'd probably come off worse imo.

On top of that guys like quarry, ellis and Oscar B would be real tough slogs for marciano though I'd fancy him to come through. I don't see anybody in rocky's record that would have much shot against frazier.

All in all I reckon frazier v Rocky would be a fight for the ages. A long hard slugging brawl. I wouldn't be shocked if Rocky pulled off the win but if I had to bet, I'd absolutely bet on Frazier.
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#36
Old 11-16-2012, 02:38 PM
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I think Rocky had a better chin. I just can't see Frazier beating him head-to-head. I'd even go far as to say that he'd wear down and stop young Foreman, as well. It would be a little similar to the Lyle fight but a different result.
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#37
Old 11-16-2012, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintcar923 View Post
I think Rocky had a better chin. I just can't see Frazier beating him head-to-head. I'd even go far as to say that he'd wear down and stop young Foreman, as well. It would be a little similar to the Lyle fight but a different result.
I think that's really stretching. I consider Marciano an all time great for what he accomplished during his era. I try to keep it in perspective. Head to head I see him losing to a number of all time heavyweighhts including Frazier and Foreman. Obviously you aren't keeping this in the same perspective. I can never prove it but I can sure use his history to form an opinion.

Marciano never beat anybody in his entire career to make a claim for beating Foreman. If Walcott and Moore could hurt Marciano it's not a stretch to see the much bigger Foreman blowing him out. Nobody ever came close beating Foreman in the style Marciano used. And yes, size would matter in this one because Foreman would move Marciano around with ease. A smaller fighter taking it to Foreman would not be healthy.


Lyle and Marciano are nothing alike in terms of their size or style. Lyle was a 6-3 220 plus boxer-puncher who worked of his jab. Marciano was a 5-10 185 pound crouching, swarming, punishing fighter. So what criteria are you using to claim it would be similar?



Marciano had a better chin based on what? Because he never took one from Foreman? That seems to be the only explanation I can see.
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#38
Old 11-16-2012, 04:15 PM
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Heres a few comparisons that give an idea of the competition avalible to Marciano and Frazier respectfully.
Frazier top competition;
Mathis
Bonavena
Quarry
Ellis
Foster (ltHvy)
(forman & Ali are the top comp.)

Marciano
Charles 83-11
Walcott
LaStanza 53-3
Reynolds 51-9
Layne 34-1
Mathewes 81-3-5
****eld 66-11 (ltHvy)

the last 8 times Joe fought he lost 4 and 3 were stopped + a draw .
Granted his losses were against hard hitting Formen and Master Tech Ali but the other competition is void of big hitters.
Another point is that Rocky was never hurt by his flash knock down with Moore, he was up immediately and took charge of Moore and won by tko!

Rocky fought better power than Joe did other than Foreman and was never in major trouble other than cuts and abrasions.
I believe these fantasy match ups are interesting and in the case of these two champs anything is possible as to an outcome. I stated I think Rocky has a punch advantage and I believe thats the difference. Joe was a one handed fighter for the most part except in his younger and "lighter" days he did use his jab but as he got older he would get countered when using against better comp so he shelved it.
Joe was between 5'10" 1/2 Rocky was 5'11" Joe was not bigger than Rocky he simply had a heavier body and needed to retain alot of fluids because he perspired a great deal during a fight and could easily drain down 8 to 12 pounds during a 12 round bout. I like Rocky by a slight edge. Ray.
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#39
Old 11-16-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Corso View Post
Heres a few comparisons that give an idea of the competition avalible to Marciano and Frazier respectfully.
Frazier top competition;
Mathis
Bonavena
Quarry
Ellis
Foster (ltHvy)
(forman & Ali are the top comp.)

Marciano
Charles 83-11
Walcott
LaStanza 53-3
Reynolds 51-9
Layne 34-1
Mathewes 81-3-5
****eld 66-11 (ltHvy)

the last 8 times Joe fought he lost 4 and 3 were stopped + a draw .
Granted his losses were against hard hitting Formen and Master Tech Ali but the other competition is void of big hitters.
Another point is that Rocky was never hurt by his flash knock down with Moore, he was up immediately and took charge of Moore and won by tko!

Rocky fought better power than Joe did other than Foreman and was never in major trouble other than cuts and abrasions.
I believe these fantasy match ups are interesting and in the case of these two champs anything is possible as to an outcome. I stated I think Rocky has a punch advantage and I believe thats the difference. Joe was a one handed fighter for the most part except in his younger and "lighter" days he did use his jab but as he got older he would get countered when using against better comp so he shelved it.
Joe was between 5'10" 1/2 Rocky was 5'11" Joe was not bigger than Rocky he simply had a heavier body and needed to retain alot of fluids because he perspired a great deal during a fight and could easily drain down 8 to 12 pounds during a 12 round bout. I like Rocky by a slight edge. Ray.
A lot of false information there. I don't know where you're getting the height statistics but I have never seen those height numbers for Frazier anywhere. As far as the weight, Frazier trained to cut his weight, not retain it. Frazier got into boxing to lose weight and weighed up to 230 as a teenager. The man won a gold as a heavyweight in the amateurs. He was bigger than Marciano and there's no need to rewrite history about it..

Last edited by joseph5620; 11-16-2012 at 05:45 PM.
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#40
Old 11-16-2012, 05:51 PM
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My height "statistics" come from standing next to them!
Joe rehydrated to make sure he would not get flat in the middle of a bout. I leaned that from Eddie Futch years ago. My opinion of the sizes of these fighters comes from me meeting them in person. I'm a very good judge of height and weight just as most trainers are! I never shoke Fraziers hand but was at a few functions with him, one with Ali, Louis, Frazier, Ellis and George Fitch a long time sparring partner for Louis. It was a recognition party for Georgie!!
I've met alot of the fighters who fought in the 40 thru the 60s because I was involved in the sport for 40 years and my older brother & father were too!
No one is rewriting anything your info comes from what you've read and mine comes from what I've done! Your welcomed to believe whatever! Ray
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