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#21
Old 11-13-2012, 09:03 PM
1sballotHOF
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Originally Posted by Dr Rumack View Post
The reason it's so much more lucrative is because (1) they perform so much more often, and (2) the audience is so much bigger. So you've got a larger group of people paying to see the sport far more often.

Audience size is a product of promotion and the cultivation of the sport in the communities that the audience lives in. And I suppose the question you have to ask is whether or not boxing actually has a presence in most people's day to day lives.

Is there a local boxing club? Did they box in school as they were growing up like they played football, basketball, or soccer? Is there a boxer from their town that gets national press attention? These are the things that create a mass audience of fans for a sport on a sustainable basis.

Sure, a megastar will come along every now and then who will pull in huge numbers, but that's not something that repairs structural problems in the sport for the most part. 3 million ppv buys on a Saturday night isn't much good if local gyms can't pay their electricity bill come Monday morning.
Your just saying, what we've known for a long long time already. What's the point of this thread?

Why aren't their anymore elite American HW boxers now a days??? Money.

/thread.
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#22
Old 11-13-2012, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Cutthroat View Post
Do you honestly believe the best America can produce is Chris Arreola and Chambers? Can you not see the quality of fighters going down?

The HW division has been declining for some time now, the NFL/NBA weren't nearly as popular as they were back in the 70s. Especially collegiately! A big factor is TVs becoming more affordable, the civil rights movement, etc.

Just look at the average salaries per year:
NBA:
1970-$20,000
1980-$90,000
1985-$300,000
1990-$860,000
2000-$4,000,000
2012-$5.15 mill

The same thing with the NFL, it's practically the same thing except they earn a bit less than NBA players, they both sky rocketed at around the same time.


College isn't free in America, we must pay A LOT of money to attend a university, we can get things like Sports scholarships to pay partially or all of our education though.

"The cost for one year of tuition and fees varies widely among colleges. According to the College Board, the average cost of tuition and fees for the 2011–2012 school year was $28,500 at private colleges, $8,244 for state residents at public colleges, and $20,770 for out-of-state residents attending public universities."

You're 18 years old straight out of school, do you have that kind of money?
I can't help but notice the meteoric rise in pay for NBA players seems to coincide with they heyday of Jordan. Also I totally agree with with whole college thing. Even if a kid doesn't make it to the NBA or NFL they can at least get a free college education. Also back in the 70's you could have a HS diploma and get a job manufacturing and raise a family on it. The whole job landscape has changed too. Even with people with degrees you see two working parents. To be perfectly honest if I had an athletic kid I'd push them towards any sport that at least has a collegiate level over boxing, but then again I would never want my son to box, it's a dangerous sport that I love and admire, but I don't think I could watch my little boy get punched. Perhaps this shows another aspect of the sport, parents are too overprotective and worried about their special little kids to let them get into boxing.
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#23
Old 11-13-2012, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Cutthroat View Post
I don't think a lot of guys have seen people like LBJ actually play, they know they're tall but they don't know just how agile they are. These people see us posting about 7ft guys and IMMEDIATLEY think of some slow plodding guy like Valuev, Ustinov etc. but they don't realize how athletically gifted these guys are, how insanely fast and quick their reflexes are etc. These guys are huge yet move like MW's.


The guy in my avatar, Kawhi Leonard is 20 years old, 6'7 230lbs and he doesn't even lift weights! He's extremely thin, all he benches is around 200lbs yet Wlad barely outweighs this guy by 15lbs. He could easily put on 30lbs if he wanted to.

Kawhi's reach is 87 inches compared to Wlad's 81 inches and Vitali's 79 inch reach.
who says these guys have chins? who says they have the mentality to be 'THE man' (theyre playing team sports)? who says they have the heart to come through a beating and win?

Athleticism is only ONE part of being a boxer. No doubt some of these athletic freaks your talking about would make great boxers, but it probably isn't as many as you'd think. Most probably Wlad Klitschko would wipe the floor with these guys because he has PROVEN to have these intangibles (or cover up the ones he doesnt have)... Idk just seems like a lot of ifs and buts from American boxing fans, using arguments that could be applied every country... fact is your not putting enough into your am system and your big fights all being ppv means quality fighters arent being exposed to wide audiences. These and many more coupled with the growth of nba/nfl have reduced your heavyweight (and other weights, maybe not as drastically) output.

Dont forget it can be argued that you only dominated in the past because not enough athletes from other countries went into boxing. swings and roundabouts basically...
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#24
Old 11-13-2012, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 1sballotHOF View Post
They still won't ever live up to guys like Ali and Tyson. I don't care what anyone says. As long as we got to witness the best HW champs of all time, it's whatever.
I thought we were talking about the heavyweight scene of today? I bet I could go to any pro football team or NBA team and recruit a dude who could make his way to a title fight within a year or two (provided I was in a financial and professional position to do such a thing). I'm just saying, the physical talent IS out there but they didn't chose boxing as a career path.

As other posters have said, there are plenty of NBA players that would be superior to Wlad and Vitali both in stature and physical capabilities. Certain guys would make Wlad's jab look pathetic just based off of their natural size and reflexes and agility.
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#25
Old 11-13-2012, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 1sballotHOF View Post
You guys are also forgetting the times we're living in. Kids growing up are soft as ****, and have too many distractions like iphones, etc. to truly have that mind state like an Ali/Frazier/Foreman/Norton/Louis/Holyfield. Kids now a days are soft as ****. I'd rather not watch "Friday night's sissy fights".
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sballotHOF View Post
Your just saying, what we've known for a long long time already. What's the point of this thread?

Why aren't their anymore elite American HW boxers now a days??? Money.

/thread.
Make your mind up.

And just saying 'money' isn't much of an answer. How the sport is organised dictates how much money it generates and how well it gets promoted. Boxing is unfortunately a 'free market' sport where a few greedy individuals gobble up most of the profits and nobody looks out for the sport itself.

If you want a sport to thrive, then you need a big chunk of the resources to end up with a body which is actively trying to get young people interested in the sport, and that actively supports local clubs. Who's doing that in boxing? Bob Arum?
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#26
Old 11-13-2012, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mathed View Post
I thought we were talking about the heavyweight scene of today? I bet I could go to any pro football team or NBA team and recruit a dude who could make his way to a title fight within a year or two (provided I was in a financial and professional position to do such a thing). I'm just saying, the physical talent IS out there but they didn't chose boxing as a career path.

As other posters have said, there are plenty of NBA players that would be superior to Wlad and Vitali both in stature and physical capabilities. Certain guys would make Wlad's jab look pathetic just based off of their natural size and reflexes and agility.
My point was that, today's athletes/kids are not strong enough mentally to die in the ring like a Ali/Frazier would. All these athletes you name, can they take a punch? Can they even punch!? Can they overcome a KD, and come back to win? Can they get KO'd, then be willing to fight again, against another killer that only has boxing???

Last edited by 1sballotHOF; 11-13-2012 at 09:14 PM.
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#27
Old 11-13-2012, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Rumack View Post
Make your mind up.

And just saying 'money' isn't much of an answer. How the sport is organised dictates how much money it generates and how well it gets promoted. Boxing is unfortunately a 'free market' sport where a few greedy individuals gobble up most of the profits and nobody looks out for the sport itself.

If you want a sport to thrive, then you need a big chunk of the resources to end up with a body which is actively trying to get young people interested in the sport, and that actively supports local clubs. Who's doing that in boxing? Bob Arum?
Exactly. We already know this. We've heard this all before. Like you said, MONEY....
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#28
Old 11-13-2012, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by pacmanis1 View Post
I can't help but notice the meteoric rise in pay for NBA players seems to coincide with they heyday of Jordan. Also I totally agree with with whole college thing. Even if a kid doesn't make it to the NBA or NFL they can at least get a free college education. Also back in the 70's you could have a HS diploma and get a job manufacturing and raise a family on it. The whole job landscape has changed too. Even with people with degrees you see two working parents. To be perfectly honest if I had an athletic kid I'd push them towards any sport that at least has a collegiate level over boxing, but then again I would never want my son to box, it's a dangerous sport that I love and admire, but I don't think I could watch my little boy get punched. Perhaps this shows another aspect of the sport, parents are too overprotective and worried about their special little kids to let them get into boxing.
Exactly. Which is why I said kids are too soft these days.
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#29
Old 11-13-2012, 09:17 PM
Dr Rumack
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Originally Posted by 1sballotHOF View Post
My point was that, today's athletes/kids are not strong enough mentally to die in the ring like a Ali/Frazier would. All these athletes you name, can they take a punch? Can they even punch!? Can they overcome a KD, and come back to win? Can they KO'd, then be willing to fight again, against another killer that only has boxing???
This stuff about the 'younger generation being soft' is thousands of years old and it's no more sensible now than it was then.

If kids aren't taking up a sport it's usually because their heroes all come from other sports. Who are the biggest sporting icons in US society? What athletes have all the big endorsement deals?

Kids will take up any sport that looks like it will get them fame, girls, money, or all three, if they have the opportunity to do so. And the guys most of today's American kids see with all that good stuff for the most part are not boxers.
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#30
Old 11-13-2012, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mathed View Post
I thought we were talking about the heavyweight scene of today? I bet I could go to any pro football team or NBA team and recruit a dude who could make his way to a title fight within a year or two (provided I was in a financial and professional position to do such a thing). I'm just saying, the physical talent IS out there but they didn't chose boxing as a career path.

As other posters have said, there are plenty of NBA players that would be superior to Wlad and Vitali both in stature and physical capabilities. Certain guys would make Wlad's jab look pathetic just based off of their natural size and reflexes and agility.
this is a ridiculous statement. What are you basing this on?? People ***** about fighters being hyped for athletic ability before theyve fought anyone decent, and your saying a basketball player who youve never even seen fight could out jab Wladimir Klitschko who probably has the best most consistent jab in boxing?
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