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#11
Old 11-09-2012, 09:57 PM
Scott9945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidKwik View Post
Yeah if he fought at his actual weight, I'd say he could have been a GOAT. He actual would have been a middleweight if he fought as his real weight. 1952 Olympics I think was when he went as a middleweight. So yeah he was fighting A LOT higher than he needed too.
Lightheavyweight is a more realistic place for Patterson. He couldn't have made 160 for long enough to win a title.
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#12
Old 11-09-2012, 10:31 PM
Cardinal Buck
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Originally Posted by PBP View Post
He's a victim of Boxrec warriors. They see all the KO losses and penalize him without seeing him fight.
Those Liston fights really are worth penalization though.
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#13
Old 11-10-2012, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Cardinal Buck View Post
Those Liston fights really are worth penalization though.
floyd was beat by a fighter who he could not hurt and was being touted as one of the all time greats at the time in sonny liston. It took alot of courage to get in the ring with liston. I also think his legacy is somewhat tarnished because he followed rocky and this is similar to larry holmes following ali.
I do not think his stoppage losses should really affect his ratings as they all occured against liston , ali and johanson who he in turn stopped twice. Considering he was at a size disadvantage I think he had an impressive carreer. Lets not forget joe frazier is rated fairly high in the hw ranks and was stopped by the latter day sonny listion(george foreman) and ali and had a good 15 pound weight advantage over floyd.
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#14
Old 11-10-2012, 09:36 AM
Welsh Jon
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He makes my top 20 heavyweight. His size does count against him though.
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#15
Old 11-10-2012, 04:06 PM
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Two men - Ingemar Johansson and Sonny Liston - have had a tremendous impact on Patterson's place in boxing history. Had he not fought Liston, he would have been highly regarded on the strength of his trilogy with the swede. What he built with those fights was destroyed by his two-time anihilation and the hands of Sonny Liston, which placed him right back to where he was before he fought either man, plus the fights that followed, including the two with Ali.

In summation, If Liston never happened, Patterson would have rated much higher; if Johansson never happened, he would have been rated even lower. Since Liston and Johansson did happen, they cancel each out as if they never did, which leaves us with Patterson's perceived underrating.
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#16
Old 11-11-2012, 08:17 AM
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Patterson's legacy gets hurt because he was utterly dominated by the best competition he faced at heavyweight. That being the two Liston fights and the 1st Ali fight.
Because Liston and Ali dominated him in different ways in terms of style, it hurts him. Frazier's losses to Foreman are chalked up as a bad matchup. Patterson doesn't get this excuse for the Liston fights because of how Ali beat him. Rather, it makes it seem that he clearly doesn't belong with the top heavyweights of all time.

I think it's slightly unfair, he was never going to beat Liston, but I'd have like to see a prime Patterson face Ali. By no means do I think he would have won, but he might done enough to save face and make the Liston fights be viewed as bad matchups.
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#17
Old 11-11-2012, 02:36 PM
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Because he was protected and his management kept him away from dangerous guys like Liston .... and when he fought them he was crushed

He was already done by the time Ali got to him
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#18
Old 11-12-2012, 12:22 AM
Cardinal Buck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rightsideup View Post
floyd was beat by a fighter who he could not hurt and was being touted as one of the all time greats at the time in sonny liston. It took alot of courage to get in the ring with liston. I also think his legacy is somewhat tarnished because he followed rocky and this is similar to larry holmes following ali.
I do not think his stoppage losses should really affect his ratings as they all occured against liston , ali and johanson who he in turn stopped twice. Considering he was at a size disadvantage I think he had an impressive carreer. Lets not forget joe frazier is rated fairly high in the hw ranks and was stopped by the latter day sonny listion(george foreman) and ali and had a good 15 pound weight advantage over floyd.
Frazier actually did much better against Foreman than Floyd did against Liston, strange as it may be. You can't get excused for consecutively getting flattened in one round by the same guy.
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#19
Old 11-12-2012, 07:17 AM
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Well,

I really like Patterson.

I give him credit for wanting to fight bigger guys, he was exciting to watch and the youngest undisputed hw champion.

He even broke his contract with Cus D'Amato in order to fight Sonny Liston who, people seem to forget, was a damn beast

Being totally unbiased, maybe he is not a top10 atg at hw, but I'd surely include him in a top 15/20.
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