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#31
Old 11-10-2012, 04:06 PM
El Jesus
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Originally Posted by Silencers View Post
I actually see that in quite a lot of fighters nowadays, especially the younger ones that are coming up, that shoulder roll defense isn't for everybody, you need some really good natural defensive instincts to make it work. So yeah, I've seen more than once where younger fighters, whether they are emulating Mayeather or not, get tagged and hurt while trying to work that shoulder roll defense.

I think what's happening now with the shoulder roll defense that Mayweather uses so well is similar to what happened when Roy Jones was at the top. I remember quite a lot of younger fighters back then trying to be like Roy Jones, throwing lead left hooks and right hands while keeping their hands low. A lot of them learned the hard way that they weren't Roy Jones.

What's a little weird about Alvarado was that earlier in his career I remember him keeping both hands up on the inside and ripping away with his shots, whereas he's tried to roll the shoulder as a defensive move on the inside in his more recent fights.
the roy jones impersonations in the gym were all the rage in the 90s and alot of people paid dearly when they found that they were nowhere near as quick nor had the fighting instincts to pull it off.


the fact is, using the shoulder roll takes defensive instincts that are very difficult to teach and you need the instincts to anticipate, take a look at Vargas vs Castillejo to see how terrible it can look when used by someone who is a bad fit for it. (silencers im sure you remember that one, that was the fight that told me fernando was finished as a top tier fighter)
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#32
Old 11-10-2012, 04:09 PM
El Jesus
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also i have to add what alot of young fighters forget is that mayweather switches from conventional, hands down, shoulder roll etc. if you look at that 3rd or 4th round when judah laid into his ass, hes in a convenational two handed defense, just like when mosley stuck him, his defensive instincts as he has passed his prime are stilll intact, its how he hasnt been knocked the **** out at this point like jones was. its more than the shoulder roll.
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#33
Old 11-10-2012, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by El Jesus View Post
also i have to add what alot of young fighters forget is that mayweather switches from conventional, hands down, shoulder roll etc. if you look at that 3rd or 4th round when judah laid into his ass, hes in a convenational two handed defense, just like when mosley stuck him, his defensive instincts as he has passed his prime are stilll intact, its how he hasnt been knocked the **** out at this point like jones was. its more than the shoulder roll.
This is a good point.

Whenever he's hurt or buzzed he instinctively goes into a conventional style high guard defense. It's a good way of knowing if a shot's hurt him.

Obviously he also uses that when he isn't hurt but like you pointed out, it's not just the shoulder roll.
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#34
Old 11-10-2012, 04:29 PM
El Jesus
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Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post
This is a good point.

Whenever he's hurt or buzzed he instinctively goes into a conventional style high guard defense. It's a good way of knowing if a shot's hurt him.

Obviously he also uses that when he isn't hurt but like you pointed out, it's not just the shoulder roll.
Mayweather is one of the few complete fighters this sport has ever had which is why its going to be a blow when he leaves not because of popularity or any of that *****, its because the little things he does are incredible. as he has now left his prime, his real talent is showing and his fights have become more intense as his speed and legs are starting to leaving him.

im not sold on someone like broner because he just doesnt have the same pedigree that mayweather had at his age, that and he tryin to hard to swag himself, not that this matters at all.
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#35
Old 11-10-2012, 04:36 PM
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Being something other than yourself is never a good idea in a high level prize fight. Some defensive tricks are very complex and need to be used mixed in with other stuff, because if you rely on them to much a guy of the proper level will figure out the holes and if you don't have another trick to counter that happening your opponent will just wear those holes out.

That is the main problem when it comes to biting successful guys tricks, the successful guys know the what, when, where, why and how of their tricks which is why they are good for them but if a guys is just copying without that understanding it is just a cheap imitation.

I don't like comparing Broner to Floyd for this very reason, he looks up to Floyd and likes to use his tricks but to me he doesn't have the understanding behind the tricks to truly get the most out of them, I think it will also eventually cost him unless he tightens up.
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#36
Old 11-10-2012, 04:56 PM
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Never knew Floyd invented the philly shell
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#37
Old 11-10-2012, 05:05 PM
IronDanHamza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE LARRY View Post
Never knew Floyd invented the philly shell
He's not saying that.

I think his point is, is that as Mayweather is so popular at this point to such a wide and casual audience, you see a lot of people using his defensive style or trying it.

You see so many people using that style or similar styles this day and age compared to any other era by a wide wide wide margin. I see so many kids using that style too.

The point he's trying to make it people should stop trying to be like Mayweather with their style because Mayweather's only as succesful as he is with that style because of his gifts first and foremost, along with obviously other things. Not that he created it. I'm sure Benny knows he didn't create that style.
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