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#371
Old 10-27-2012, 05:12 PM
the_ilest
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Originally Posted by SoggyLungs View Post
but how can anyone be absolutely 100% sure there is or isn't some sort of higher being/something much greater than ourselves? there is no way to know anything about that unless we have 100% without a doubt knowledge about everything. we're still discovering things about the universe and about life here on earth...
Very good questions. Before becoming truthfully a atheist i wondered this myself. However, one day i realized that all roads of knowledge lead to atheism as the explanation for everything. The more you learn it seems the less "god" actually did to a point that god did nothing, and if god did nothing than he does not exist. for example, i have masters degree in history. For example, every culture since the start of calendar time claims to have support from a god. so if they win or lose god exists technically to those people. Here is a quick religious timeline of dominant European religions over time.....,

egyptian pantheon->greek pantheon-zoroastrinism->roman pantheon->co-domiance Zoroasrenism-roman pantheon-> Roman cult of the emperor/pantheon-> Christianity->Catholic Christianity-> islam-> shia and Sunni islam ->co dominance orthodox christ and islam-> co dominance CC, OC, and islam-> CC and islam->catholic-> co dominance catholic-Prostethan. etc.

i excluded the hun and khan conquest and changes because they had no religions. They would be Atheist conquerers by modern terms like napoleon.

Although, all those people thanked their gods for victories. The fact of the matter is that non of their gods had anything to do with their victories or loses. All those religions won because their followers had technological advantages and military strategies. The romans where masters of the strategies, the egyptians had the chariot archer, the greeks the phalanx, The atheists horse back khan and huns. islam camels and siege and speed warfare, shia terrorism guerrilla warfare, CC knighthood, OC naval napalm warfare, islam the canon and gun powder, CC naval canon warfare, etc.

God had nothing to do with victories. Technology is responsible for victories. There is no god in history. The more you learn about a subject the less a god will exist. To a point that he does not exist at all.
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#372
Old 10-27-2012, 05:41 PM
The Noose
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Originally Posted by the_ilest View Post
Although, all those people thanked their gods for victories. The fact of the matter is that non of their gods had anything to do with their victories or loses. All those religions won because their followers had technological advantages and military strategies. The romans where masters of the strategies, the egyptians had the chariot archer, the greeks the phalanx, The atheists horse back khan and huns. islam camels and siege and speed warfare, shia terrorism guerrilla warfare, CC knighthood, OC naval napalm warfare, islam the canon and gun powder, CC naval canon warfare, etc.

God had nothing to do with victories. Technology is responsible for victories. There is no god in history. The more you learn about a subject the less a god will exist. To a point that he does not exist at all.
Maybe it was their belief in their gods that helped them win in their eyes. Or that they believed that God had given them the intelligence to create such weapons that aided their victory?
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#373
Old 10-27-2012, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by The Noose View Post
Maybe it was their belief in their gods that helped them win in their eyes. Or that they believed that God had given them the intelligence to create such weapons that aided their victory?
yeah... a dude's belief defines him...

isaac newton, a devoted and religious theist had more writings in the subject of religion than his scientific ones... science to him was secondary...
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#374
Old 10-27-2012, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SoggyLungs View Post
but how can anyone be absolutely 100% sure there is or isn't some sort of higher being/something much greater than ourselves? there is no way to know anything about that unless we have 100% without a doubt knowledge about everything. we're still discovering things about the universe and about life here on earth...
You can't be 100% sure that there are no capricious gnomes who exist only to hide your car keys and steal odd socks from the dryer. That doesn't mean that it's useful or meaningful to keep an open mind about them.
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#375
Old 10-27-2012, 10:21 PM
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Just ordered this T-Shirt.

http://www.cafepress.com/mf/21000888...or-else_tshirt
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#376
Old 10-27-2012, 10:32 PM
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Larry's lack of basic knowledge on the subject is funny
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#377
Old 10-28-2012, 02:25 AM
the_ilest
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Maybe it was their belief in their gods that helped them win in their eyes. Or that they believed that God had given them the intelligence to create such weapons that aided their victory?
I think perhaps it was a combination of everything. it would be stupid on my behalf if i said beliefs in god/s don't turn and shape battles when they clearly do. Julius Ceasar was declared a God because he always won battles when he should have lost. Julius ceasar even said he would win wars "only because of peoples beliefs on him." I mean we still celebrate God Julius Caesar by giving him his own month july.

However, as for god/s gifting people and cultures weapons that is a tricky one. the huns and khans where atheist in nature and believed in adopting the best ways to killing people from other cultures. Technically they secularized weapons as a means to kill and conquer on behalf of themselves. The huns and Khans never spread religion so weapons was just a toy for them. However, the muslims especially "the Gunpowder empires" of the middle east saw gunpowder as a gift from god to spread religion and they did. The ottomans conquered the Byzantine thanks to canons and they thanked allah for gunpowder. However, when the muslims where on the other side of the canon of Napoleon who mastered canon artillery to a science; Several muslims clerics declared Gunpowder and canons the work of the devil. I could keep on naming examples of people and cultures who thank god/s but i think i made my point some thank god's others thank themselves for how good they are at killing people.

Sadly, humans who are good at killing people and thank god are seen as good individuals vs Atheist who are good at killing people and thank themselves are seen as bad. o well what can you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by talip bin osman View Post
yeah... a dude's belief defines him...

isaac newton, a devoted and religious theist had more writings in the subject of religion than his scientific ones... science to him was secondary...
yeah, true that. Newton was one weird dude. History seems to forgotten everything about him. He is better known for his secondary loves than his firsts. newton was in love with alchemy, the occult, and religion. In one of my history classes for a whole hour or so people where arguing what religion newton belonged to. The argument ended with, "a member of no religion but the start of a change."

Later in private discussion with my professor he told me, "i'm disappointed in you jay. for not realizing the truth about newton and what he unintentionally proved about religion. I said, "what do you mean?" my professor responded, "dont be stupid Jay. Newton did not like science and math but created calculus and physics, Gravity, motion, planetary motion, etc. Math and science was 3rd and 4th on his priority on his list. That means he was fully concentrated on religion and alchemy all the time. correct? yes. Newton was not able to prove alchemy and religion. Newton proved there is no such thing as magic and religion.

i left that private discussion feeling a angry to say the least for not realizing that. But stuff like that cemented my atheism. If newton could not prove the occult, religion, and magic. Then one can. Einstein, hawking, etc, all realized it.
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