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#41
Old 10-16-2012, 11:09 AM
fight_professor
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Originally Posted by Nodogoshi View Post
Iran is a signatory to the IAEA.

I am opposed to nuclear power, period. But based on the conventions of international law, Iran is permitted to develop nuclear energy capabilities.

There has been no definitive evidence that Iran is even pursuing a nuclear weapon. Until such evidence is presented, people who would generally be opposed of war merely for the sake of war have no ground to stand on if they advocate war with Iran.
I understand Tehran angst. Look around them - everyone has nuclear weapons in their 'hood. Israel, Russia, Pakistan, India - so its a pride and security thing. The western concern is that Iran threatens favourable geo-strategic balance in the region which is needed for energy security et al.

Its a dangerous neighbourhood. The only thing is that Iran is alone in being bellicose. The others may not love each other - but they quietly co-exist (usually). There is no way Iran can feel safe in that region without its own nukes.
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#42
Old 10-16-2012, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by fight_professor View Post
I understand Tehran angst. Look around them - everyone has nuclear weapons in their 'hood. Israel, Russia, Pakistan, India - so its a pride and security thing. The western concern is that Iran threatens favourable geo-strategic balance in the region which is needed for energy security et al.

Its a dangerous neighbourhood. The only thing is that Iran is alone in being bellicose. The others may not love each other - but they quietly co-exist (usually). There is no way Iran can feel safe in that region without its own nukes.
I agree with all but the bold. Firstly, Iran in fact not alone in being bellicose, and the countries do not quietly coexist. Inter-Arab angst is notorious, to the point of having its own cliche ("the only thing an Arab hates more than a Jew is another Arab", a some variation there of--a somewhat bigoted phrase which is also rather ahistorical, but reflects somewhat some of the contemporaneous realities in the Mideast). Iran did fight a horrible war with Iraq in the 1980s, but it was Iraq which instigated it (over a territorial dispute). Other major conflicts have not involved Iran, and have instead involved Israel vs Arab countries, Arab countries vs other Arab countries (Iraq's invasion of Kuwait for instance), and Western powers bringing war to the Mideast.
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#43
Old 10-16-2012, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by fight_professor View Post
I understand Tehran angst. Look around them - everyone has nuclear weapons in their 'hood. Israel, Russia, Pakistan, India - so its a pride and security thing. The western concern is that Iran threatens favourable geo-strategic balance in the region which is needed for energy security et al.

Its a dangerous neighbourhood. The only thing is that Iran is alone in being bellicose. The others may not love each other - but they quietly co-exist (usually). There is no way Iran can feel safe in that region without its own nukes.
That's why I say every nation should be entitled to a nuclear arsenal. This would put a stop to the aggression witnessed by those that have them, against those who do not.

Take the example of N.Korea, since they let the world know via their nuclear tests, that they have nuclear weapons, no one has bothered them since, in fact, it brought other nations to the table to negotiate food and other necessities.

Nuclear weapons are a deterrent and an asset in this millennium.

Without nuclear weapons, nations with valuable resources stand to be bullied and eventually invaded.
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#44
Old 10-16-2012, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by arraamis View Post
That's why I say every nation should be entitled to a nuclear arsenal. This would put a stop to the aggression witnessed by those that have them, against those who do not.

Take the example of N.Korea, since they let the world know via their nuclear tests, that they have nuclear weapons, no one has bothered them since, in fact, it brought other nations to the table to negotiate food and other necessities.

Nuclear weapons are a deterrent and an asset in this millennium.

Without nuclear weapons, nations with valuable resources stand to be bullied and eventually invaded.
Did you just defend North Korea?
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#45
Old 10-16-2012, 11:38 AM
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Did you just defend North Korea?
No he said their nukes did that for them.
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#46
Old 10-16-2012, 01:36 PM
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No he said their nukes did that for them.
I meant he defended their virtue.
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#47
Old 10-16-2012, 01:36 PM
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I was referring to the nuclear states in the region. Pak-India know they cant afford a war - so slowly but surely, relationships are improving with trade and cultural interaction up. The same peace is ensured between all 4 even though they have had issues - so from that POV maybe a nuclear Iran is a plus.

However, Iran may try to dominate the Peninsula (and its oil!) which is why a nuclear Iran is such as issue to Washington. Washington accepted a nuclear Pakistan as geo-strategically Pakistan isnt seeking rival aims, so Washington may not love the fact that Pakistan has nukes, but its not a game changer as US GME plays are not hindered. Iran doesnt present the same puzzle.

The biggest issue is that if Iran gets nukes, the Saudis will want them at any cost - they have made this clear. Ie:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...r-weapons-iran
"We cannot live in a situation where Iran has nuclear weapons and we don't. It's as simple as that," the official said. "If Iran develops a nuclear weapon, that will be unacceptable to us and we will have to follow suit."

The ME could soon be a much more dangerous place!
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#48
Old 10-16-2012, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
Did you just defend North Korea?
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Originally Posted by Prince Mongo View Post
No he said their nukes did that for them.
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
I meant he defended their virtue.
Don't know where Squeal is going with this ...

N.Korea was used as an example of what happens when a country gains nuclear weapons. Other nations with whom they had conflicts, immediately change their tone and are miraculously willing to negotiate peaceful means to resolve differences. As far as VIRTUE ... don't see the connection.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:21 PM
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I dont want anymore wars, but iran dont need nukes. They will use them on israel first chance they get.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:46 PM
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I dont want anymore wars, but iran dont need nukes. They will use them on israel first chance they get.
I very much doubt it. Israel has a vast arsenal of nukes with very sophisticated anti misile systems and first rate delivery systems. In a nuclear exchange Iran would be wiped out.
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