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#1
Old 10-10-2012, 01:58 AM
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Post Comments Thread For: A Rose, By Any Other Name… Still Doesn’t Deserve It

By Lyle Fitzsimmons

As a Cincinnati Reds fan, I’ve been saying it for 25 years.

Though he’s long been known for a loathsome personality, one Peter Edward Rose has more hits than anyone else who’s ever played major league baseball. Which means, without his plaque on the wall in the bucolic enclave of Cooperstown, N.Y., the National Baseball Hall of Fame is a fraud.

Meanwhile, just 69 miles northwest in the Syracuse suburb of Canastota, another such statement can be made about the home of stars in another sport. Though he had a career most would envy, if Arturo Gatti makes it onto the wall there next year, then the International Boxing Hall of Fame is an abject failure.

And with apologies to election-season poll heads, “likeability factor” should have nothing to do it.

While Rose is by consensus a lying egomaniac with a bloated sense of self, his performance on the field is measurably as good as anyone who’s ever gripped a bat. It’s a stark contrast to Gatti, who admittedly thrilled a generation of wide-eyed fans, but fell flat – literally – against the best of his peers.

Rose – a rookie of the year, an MVP, a three-time batting champion and a 17-time all-star – has been barred from enshrinement for more than two decades by voting rules concocted to punish him for being defiant, rather than reverential, when it came to explaining off-field foibles. [Click Here To Read More]
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#2
Old 10-10-2012, 05:39 AM
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Its the hall of fame, not the hall of extra ordinary skills. Its stated goal is to "honor and preserve the rich heritage.."

Arturo Gatti was as much a part of that heritage during his career as any of his contemporaries.

To say "he wasn't good enough" isn't good enough. Boxing is different from other sports. This is a sport that still exists today because fighters like Gatti show up every once in a while to captivate us with their determination and will to win.

A good old balls to the wall slugfest is once the most celebrated forms of the art of boxing, and there was no greater master of his time than Gatti.

They give awards every year for fight of the year, Ive never seen that award for technical boxing performance of the year...

The way you continue to denigrate the man who gave so much of himself to creating the audience that you now pander too is disgusting.

If Danny Lopez is worthy, so is Gatti.
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#3
Old 10-10-2012, 05:54 AM
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Is this the same writer that believes Sven Ottke should be in the HOF? Can somebody clear this up?
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#4
Old 10-10-2012, 07:53 AM
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fitzimmons comes out with some crud sometimes. Gatti is more celebrated by boxing fans the world over for his effort, courage and honour than nearly any other boxer. if the number of meaningless trinkets handed out by heinous organisations is your thing then Gatti is a no....if demonstration of true warrior spirit is your thing then he is a yes. I like my heroes to be real not manufactured.
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#5
Old 10-10-2012, 08:32 AM
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Gatti was xcitead 1st, blood&guts style, but did not beat the elite...Mickey Ward was NOT elite, & doesn't belong in the HOF...Rose does...a superstar who hustled & has the most hits in MB history...gambling, on other teams, not a reason to keep him out...remember bk when Hornung & Karras were suspended ONE year for gambling, it doesn't equate...
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#6
Old 10-10-2012, 08:49 AM
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Yeah you writers can repeat as much as you like that Gatti wasn't the best fighter of his time, or that he didn't have the skills, or that his resume wasn't that great.

That's not what the Boxing HoF is about.
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#7
Old 10-10-2012, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !! Shawn View Post
Its the hall of fame, not the hall of extra ordinary skills. Its stated goal is to "honor and preserve the rich heritage.."
Arturo Gatti was as much a part of that heritage during his career as any of his contemporaries.
I love how you clipped the quote just enough to completely ignore the part where it says "...CHRONICLE THE ACHIEVEMENTS OF THOSE WHO EXCELLED."

This is exactly why Gatti won't get my vote, and the argument posed for him rings hollow. Everyone who will vote for him is playing semantics with "Hall of Fame." If it's only about fame, then start reserving a spot for Saul Alvarez and Julio Cesar Chavez.

Quote:
If Danny Lopez is worthy, so is Gatti.
This is the worst argument for anyone making the Hall of Fame, and the reason why so many "very good not great" fighters have made it in. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

That said, it's debatable as to whether Gatti was as accomplished. Even though Lopez' most notable wins came against great fighters on the wrong side of their prime, Gatti doesn't even have any of those on his resume.
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#8
Old 10-10-2012, 09:34 AM
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Default Amen, Jake

As my mother used to say, "Two wrongs don't make a right." So justifying Gatti's case with things like, "Well, McGuigan's in" or "Hey, Little Red" is in, doesn't make a lot of sense. No one in their right mind would argue that any of those guys - Gatti included - didn't have careers that 99.99 percent of pros would envy. But it's not the "Hall of Very Good" or the "Hall of Very Exciting," it supposed to be something more.
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#9
Old 10-10-2012, 09:50 AM
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This line really says it all:

"Something more than half of what Felix Sturm totaled in terms of title defenses"

If Gatti gets in because he was fun to watch and popular in the USA, you could make the case for guys like Sturm or Chris John because they are popular in their own countries and people there love to watch them.

The best way to determine entry to the hall is by measurable achievements. Guys like Gatti, Emanuel Augustus and Mickey Ward should certainly be celebrated, but not in the Hall of Fame IMHO.
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#10
Old 10-10-2012, 12:00 PM
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Gatti is most definitely not a Hall of Famer. And Rose put in question the integrity of the game by betting on games while he was involved with the sport. So, that is hardly an off the field issue. And Rose denied it and lied about it, that is until it came time for him to sell his book. So, even his personal integrity is suspect. I also believe that Shoeless Joe should go in the Hall long before Pete Rose. But, I will have to admit that if Rose had played for the Orioles, I probably would have agreed with you. Just being honest!
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