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#51
Old 10-06-2012, 01:50 PM
hillbilly
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Originally Posted by Simurgh View Post
Anyone who knows anything about boxing must see that Vitali is way over his prime. I don't think he is the same fighter he was 2 years ago, moreover 3-4 years ago. That might be good for the rest of the division so it might seems he is going strong but he slowed down a lot.
Is he capable to compete anymore I don't know - I think he himself knows the best. So that's why I say I am NOT AGAINST he fights Haye if he feels his body can cope, but also I don't mind if he chooses to retire.

And I as a boxing fan don't get absolutely anything from Haye (well I often get a lot of BS) - he didn't do much in HW and I think he could. Why not continue to fight. He feels he will get exposed...?
I think vitale is nowhere near his prime. That's why haye wants to make this fight now, after having ducked it for two years.
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#52
Old 10-06-2012, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by edgarg View Post
That's not a valid argument. They are both extremely dominant world champions, who hardly ever lose a single round. I can't recall this ever happening in any divsison.
Your arguments have no merit. Their achievements are irrelevant in this equation because they fight in totally different styles just like the other brothers do. They aren't carbon copies of each other in terms of style and each one has different weaknesses that the right opponent could exploit. You could take any two champions in any division and the story would be the same, whether they're brothers or not. In theory Haye should perform a lot differently against Vitali than he did against Wladimir, at this stage of his career.

Vitali won't perform exactly the same against Haye as Wladimir did, only someone who's very new to boxing might assume that, purely because they're brothers. The reality is they have very different styles. Vitali might do better or worse, I'm not saying Haye definitely wins, he might even get KO'd by Vitali, but the fight should be more competitive while it lasts and it should be a totally different fight to the Wladimir fight taking into consideration the only important factor - styles - and ignoring the completely irrelevant factor - siblings.
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#53
Old 10-06-2012, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Simurgh View Post
Anyone who knows anything about boxing must see that Vitali is way over his prime. I don't think he is the same fighter he was 2 years ago, moreover 3-4 years ago. That might be good for the rest of the division so it might seems he is going strong but he slowed down a lot.
Is he capable to compete anymore I don't know - I think he himself knows the best. So that's why I say I am NOT AGAINST he fights Haye if he feels his body can cope, but also I don't mind if he chooses to retire.

And I as a boxing fan don't get absolutely anything from Haye (well I often get a lot of BS) - he didn't do much in HW and I think he could. Why not continue to fight. He feels he will get exposed...?

Dude, get real. Some Klitschko fans on here claimed Vitali was in his prime last year, after blowing away Adamek.

You can't compare Vitali-Lewis to Vitali-Haye, in my opinion. They're not unknown quantities and the fight, if it happens, sure as hell won't be on two-weeks notice.

I still think Vitali, despite his apparent decline, beats Haye either by wide UD or brutal KO.
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#54
Old 10-06-2012, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris T Byrd View Post
plan a is easy work and is not based on hope : it's based on awesome head movement and being elusive

plan B is not a plan, it's a fact : Vitali is old and he fights like an old man now, Haye will embarrass him, and break his 2 rotator cuffs by making him swing at a shadow

ask Chris T Byrd
Yup, Haye is so elusive that we only see him once a year. I will admit that Haye moves well but in my opinion his problem is that he cannot, for what ever reason, put what he has all together in one fight. He either moves well, see Valuev and Wlad, and doesn't engage. Or he fights, see Chisora, and doesn't really move all that much.
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#55
Old 10-06-2012, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by FlatLine View Post
Your arguments have no merit. Their achievements are irrelevant in this equation because they fight in totally different styles just like the other brothers do. They aren't carbon copies of each other in terms of style and each one has different weaknesses that the right opponent could exploit. You could take any two champions in any division and the story would be the same, whether they're brothers or not. In theory Haye should perform a lot differently against Vitali than he did against Wladimir, at this stage of his career.

Vitali won't perform exactly the same against Haye as Wladimir did, only someone who's very new to boxing might assume that, purely because they're brothers. The reality is they have very different styles. Vitali might do better or worse, I'm not saying Haye definitely wins, he might even get KO'd by Vitali, but the fight should be more competitive while it lasts and it should be a totally different fight to the Wladimir fight taking into consideration the only important factor - styles - and ignoring the completely irrelevant factor - siblings.
Unlikely it will be significantly more exciting than Wlad-Haye. Haye will fight the same way he fought Wlad and Valuev. He will use his speed to run around the ring trying to force Vitali to come closer. Then with occasional attacks he will try to find his signature power punch.

If the fight happens I am more than sure Vitali will push the action and out-throw Haye but he will miss a lot and it is quite likely he will injure himself or tired himself (at 41-42 he is much slower and his body is more fragile). On the other hand Haye will wait trying to land clear.
What was his output against Valuev?!
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#56
Old 10-06-2012, 02:05 PM
yoz
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It's a sad state of affairs for both fighters, really.

Vitali NEEDS Haye for his legacy; Haye NEEDS Vitali for another pay day/to give some credit to his reputation as a HW.
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#57
Old 10-06-2012, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by yoz View Post
Dude, get real. Some Klitschko fans on here claimed Vitali was in his prime last year, after blowing away Adamek.

You can't compare Vitali-Lewis to Vitali-Haye, in my opinion. They're not unknown quantities and the fight, if it happens, sure as hell won't be on two-weeks notice.

I still think Vitali, despite his apparent decline, beats Haye either by wide UD or brutal KO.
Of course I can't compare Vitali-Lewis to Vitali-Haye. Haye is not even close to caliber of that version of Vitali.
And Lewis was much closer to his prime than Vitali is now to his. 4 years is not insignificant. I don't want to bring Lewis in this conversation but Vitali hell did much more to deserve another go against Lewis than Haye did.
Lewis decided to retire - fair enough.
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#58
Old 10-06-2012, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by yoz View Post
Dude, get real. Some Klitschko fans on here claimed Vitali was in his prime last year, after blowing away Adamek.

You can't compare Vitali-Lewis to Vitali-Haye, in my opinion. They're not unknown quantities and the fight, if it happens, sure as hell won't be on two-weeks notice.

I still think Vitali, despite his apparent decline, beats Haye either by wide UD or brutal KO.
In reality Vitali spent a big chunk of his prime sitting in retirement. And regardless of how he looked against Adamek he was still well past his prime. I also believe anyone that has any knowledge of the sport of boxing that would give an honest assessment would say that the Vitali of today is not the same Vitali that beat Adamek. In other words he got old, sometimes it happens over night and sometimes it takes a little longer. But regardless of the timeline it is beyond obvious that it is indeed happening. And at some point Father Time will catch us all.
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#59
Old 10-06-2012, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by yoz View Post
It's a sad state of affairs for both fighters, really.

Vitali NEEDS Haye for his legacy; Haye NEEDS Vitali for another pay day/to give some credit to his reputation as a HW.
No! because Haye is not future HOF, he doesn't even wants to fight anymore. If fight happens and Vitali wins it won't be a massive boost for his legacy.

It would be all different if Haye is the next big thing in boxing. Let say he stays in boxing long enough to be dominant champion after Wlad, that would do good for Vitali resume. This way most of the people wouldn't even remember who Haye is in the next 15-20 years (especially if fight with Vitali doesn't happen) .

If Lennox won over Vitali by outboxing him or by KO him it would be the best Lennox's win taking into account when they fought and how Vitali did after that fight. If Lennox beat prime Tyson, Holyfiled and clearly beat Vitali we would all now discuss if Lennox is better than Ali.
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#60
Old 10-06-2012, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Simurgh View Post
No! because Haye is not future HOF, he doesn't even wants to fight anymore. If fight happens and Vitali wins it won't be a massive boost for his legacy.

It would be all different if Haye is the next big thing in boxing. Let say he stays in boxing long enough to be dominant champion after Wlad, that would do good for Vitali resume. This way most of the people wouldn't even remember who Haye is in the next 15-20 years (especially if fight with Vitali doesn't happen) .

If Lennox won over Vitali by outboxing him or by KO him it would be the best Lennox's win taking into account when they fought and how Vitali did after that fight. If Lennox beat prime Tyson, Holyfiled and clearly beat Vitali we would all now discuss if Lennox is better than Ali.
I agree with what you have said and I also disagree. I agree with what you have said about Haye. Simply because Haye needs Vitali a hell of a lot more then the other way around. And if Haye retired today I really believe that he would be little more then an afterthought fifteen to twenty years down the road.

What I disagree with is what you have said about Lennox Lewis. And just to make it clear I am not a Lewis fan. With that said. The Lewis stoppage of Vitali was legit. The man ripped half his face off and deserves much more credit for the victory then he usually gets form Vitali fans. And honestly my fellow Vitali fans really need to put the fight behind them.
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