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#1
Old 10-04-2012, 02:17 PM
4Corners
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Default Liston, Tyson, Lennox, Vitali, & Wlad: Rank these resumes

Sonny Liston:
Wins over Cleveland Williams (Top 10 HW), Roy Harris (Top 10 HW), Zora Folley (#1 HW), Eddie Machen (#3 HW), and Floyd Patterson (World HW Champ).

Mike Tyson:
Wins over Trevor Berbick (WBC HW Champ/Top 10 HW), James Smith (WBA HW Champ/#2 HW), Pinklon Thomas (#3 HW), Tony Tucker (IBF HW Champ/#3 HW), Tyrell Biggs (Top 10 HW), Michael Spinks (RING HW Champ), Carl Williams (#2 HW), Donovan Ruddock (#3 HW), Frank Bruno (WBC HW champ/Top 10 HW), and Bruce Seldon (WBA HW Champ/Top 10 HW).

Lennox Lewis:
Wins over Donovan Ruddock (Top 10 HW), Tony Tucker (Top 10 HW), Frank Bruno (Top 10 HW), Phil Jackson (Top 10 HW), Oliver McCall, Henry Akinwande (Top 10 HW), Andrew Golota (Top 10 HW), Shannon Briggs (Top 10 HW), Evander Holyfield (WBA/IBF HW Champ/#1 HW/#3 P4P), Michael Grant (#3 HW), David Tua (Top 10 HW), Hasim Rahman (WBC/IBF HW Champ/#1 HW), Mike Tyson (#2 HW), and Vitali Klitschko (Top 10 HW).

Vitali Klitschko:
Wins over Herbie Hide (WBO HW Champ), Kirk Johnson (Top 10 HW), Corrie Sanders (#3 HW), Samuel Peter (WBC HW Chamo/#2 HW), Juan Carlos Gomez (Top 10 HW), Chris Arreola (Top 10 HW), Kevin Johnson, Odlanier Solis, Tomasz Adamek (Top 10 HW), and Dereck Chisora.

Wladimir Klitschko:
Wins over Monte Barrett, Chris Byrd (WBO HW Champ/Top 10 HW, IBF HW Champ/#1 HW), Jameel McCline (Top 10 HW), Samuel Peter (Top 10 HW), Calvin Brock (Top 10 HW), Lamon Brewster (Top 10 HW), Sultan Ibragimov (WBO HW Champ/Top 10 HW), Tony Thompson (Top 10 HW), Ruslan Chagaev (#3 HW), Eddie Chambers (#3 HW), and David Haye (WBA HW Champ/#2 HW).
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#2
Old 10-04-2012, 02:33 PM
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Lewis
Wlad
Tyson
Liston
Vitali
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#3
Old 10-04-2012, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simurgh View Post
Lewis
Wlad
Tyson
Liston
Vitali

I agree with that.
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#4
Old 10-04-2012, 02:39 PM
4Corners
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Default

Lennox
Tyson
Liston
Wlad
Vitali

Vitali's resume isn't all that strong even for his era, which is weak as it is. His best wins are Sanders and Peter. He's the lowest.

Liston and Wlad are fairly close though. Wlad has more wins over the Top HW's in his era, but for his time, Liston's era had better fighters. Liston's wins over Floyd Patterson trump anything on Wlad's resume, and had their been this many belts when Liston fought Top HW's Folley and Machen, they would have been HW champions at that time too. His best wins are Patterson (HOF), Machen, and Folley.

Wlad's best wins are Haye, Byrd, Peter, Chagaev, and Chambers. Haye and Byrd are good wins, very solid wins. But they're not really better or worse than Liston's wins over Folley and Machen at the time he fought them, and than Liston has the Patterson win which trumps anything on Wlad's resume. But, Wlad has been a Top HW longer than Liston was, giving him more wins over Top 10 fighters. Still, Liston has the better win, as equal of Top wins, and fought in a tougher era for his time. I'd give Liston the edge there.

Next is Lennox and Tyson, where Lennox has the better resume to me. Tyson was dominant, in a semi-weak era of his, but still has the win over Spinks, who was the lineal HW champ at the time, and one of the top fighters. He was dominant over all the other Top HW's from the Mid 80's to his Douglas upset loss. Ruddock, Smith, Thomas, Tucker, were all Top HW's when Tyson fought them, and H2H they're better than the likes of today's modern day Top HW's, in my opinion. He came back and had a few solid wins, but didn't dominate like he had.

Sure, Lennox was upset by McCall and Rahman, but he avenged both losses, and has other solid wins too. His win over Holyfield is better than any other win on any of these resumes, and also beat other Top HW's around his time as well.

So for me....

Lennox
Tyson
Liston
Wlad
Vitali

The Top 5 wins on here are

Lennox over Holyfield
Liston over Patterson
Tyson over Spinks
Wlad over Haye
Liston over Folley/Wlad over Byrd

In my opinion.


But if someone disagree's, that's their opinion. I'm not knocking them at all.

Last edited by 4Corners; 10-04-2012 at 02:42 PM.
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#5
Old 10-04-2012, 02:44 PM
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1.Lewis/Vitali/Wlad
4.Tyson
5.Liston
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#6
Old 10-04-2012, 02:48 PM
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Wlad
Lewis
Vitali
Liston
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#7
Old 10-04-2012, 02:48 PM
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1) Wlad and Lewis (tie)
2) Tyson
3) Vitali
4) Liston

Wlad never defeated a fighter as good as Vitali, but otherwise he fought and stopped a lot of prime opponents who had never been stopped before and/or were undefeated.

All the people Lewis fought people stopped except for Vitali had been stopped before. Holyfield was past his best and Tyson was past his prime.

Liston has only two wins of note over Patterson. I rank Vitali higher because of his longevity (the only HW to hold a world title in three different decades) and relative consistency. Both had bad moments: Vitali quit against Byrd when he was injured, but Liston quit against Ali without an injury and in the rematch took a dive.
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#8
Old 10-04-2012, 02:51 PM
4Corners
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom. View Post
Wlad
Lewis
Tyson
Vitali
Liston

Wlad never defeated a fighter as good as Vitali, but otherwise he fought a lot of prime opponents who had never been stopped before and/or were undefeated.

All the people Lewis fought people stopped except for Vitali had been stopped before.

Liston has only two wins of note over Patterson. I rank Vitali higher because of his longevity (the only HW to hold a world title in three different decades) and relative consistency. Both had bad moments: Vitali quit against Byrd when he was injured, but Liston quit against Ali without an injury and in the rematch took a dive.
Well if we're talking bad moments or losses, Wlad was stopped by Sanders and Brewster, and Lennox lost to Rahman and McCall.

But saying Liston only has two wins over note over Patterson is RIDICULOUS. Cleveland Williams, Eddie Machen, Roy Harris, and Zora Folley were all Top ranked HW's back then, and Machen/Folley would have held titles if they had all these belts back then.

Folley beat Machen, Williams, Cooper, Jones, Chuvalo, Bonavena, Foster, and should have gotten the W over Mildenberger too. Folley was a very good fighter back in the late 50's and 60's. Had their been 4 major belts back then, Folley and Machen both would have won multiple HW titles.
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#9
Old 10-04-2012, 02:52 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Corners View Post
Lennox
Tyson
Liston
Wlad
Vitali

Vitali's resume isn't all that strong even for his era, which is weak as it is. His best wins are Sanders and Peter. He's the lowest.

Liston and Wlad are fairly close though. Wlad has more wins over the Top HW's in his era, but for his time, Liston's era had better fighters. Liston's wins over Floyd Patterson trump anything on Wlad's resume, and had their been this many belts when Liston fought Top HW's Folley and Machen, they would have been HW champions at that time too. His best wins are Patterson (HOF), Machen, and Folley.

Wlad's best wins are Haye, Byrd, Peter, Chagaev, and Chambers. Haye and Byrd are good wins, very solid wins. But they're not really better or worse than Liston's wins over Folley and Machen at the time he fought them, and than Liston has the Patterson win which trumps anything on Wlad's resume. But, Wlad has been a Top HW longer than Liston was, giving him more wins over Top 10 fighters. Still, Liston has the better win, as equal of Top wins, and fought in a tougher era for his time. I'd give Liston the edge there.

Next is Lennox and Tyson, where Lennox has the better resume to me. Tyson was dominant, in a semi-weak era of his, but still has the win over Spinks, who was the lineal HW champ at the time, and one of the top fighters. He was dominant over all the other Top HW's from the Mid 80's to his Douglas upset loss. Ruddock, Smith, Thomas, Tucker, were all Top HW's when Tyson fought them, and H2H they're better than the likes of today's modern day Top HW's, in my opinion. He came back and had a few solid wins, but didn't dominate like he had.

Sure, Lennox was upset by McCall and Rahman, but he avenged both losses, and has other solid wins too. His win over Holyfield is better than any other win on any of these resumes, and also beat other Top HW's around his time as well.

So for me....

Lennox
Tyson
Liston
Wlad
Vitali

The Top 5 wins on here are

Lennox over Holyfield
Liston over Patterson
Tyson over Spinks
Wlad over Haye
Liston over Folley/Wlad over Byrd

In my opinion.


But if someone disagree's, that's their opinion. I'm not knocking them at all.
So this means Bowe has a better resume than Lewis as his win over prime Holyfiled is way better than anything on Lewis resume?
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#10
Old 10-04-2012, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Corners View Post
Lennox
Tyson
Liston
Wlad
Vitali
We can see what you base your opinions on.

I noticed your list of favorite fighters all had something in common.

You need to learn to evaluate boxers more objectively.
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