Vitali's ATG Ranking?

[damuttz112]

Who did either Klitschko beat that is remotely as good as Ali? I see a bigger gap, personally, looking that way than the other. And yes, Vitali and Wlad are better than Terrell, but Ali-Terrell was not close. It was very one-sided. Fighting a man with a height advantage he was completely non-plussed.

Vitali and Wlad have been tested once at the very highest level between them, and Vitali lost on a TKO. Whatever you make of the "complete package" the brothers supposedly represent, they basically have never proven themselves to be in Ali's class. You obviously have tremendous faith in your analytical abilities and so are comfortable in your breakdown, but for most other people Ali is the natural pick. There is a reason for this.

[jimmy1569]

Originally Posted by damuttz112

Who did either Klitschko beat that is remotely as good as Ali? I see a bigger gap, personally, looking that way than the other. And yes, Vitali and Wlad are better than Terrell, but Ali-Terrell was not close. It was very one-sided. Fighting a man with a height advantage he was completely non-plussed.

Vitali and Wlad have been tested once at the very highest level between them, and Vitali lost on a TKO. Whatever you make of the "complete package" the brothers supposedly represent, they basically have never proven themselves to be in Ali's class. You obviously have tremendous faith in your analytical abilities and so are comfortable in your breakdown, but for most other people Ali is the natural pick. There is a reason for this.

Yes.. it's because there biased towards old school but most importantly biased towards a kLItschko.. You go to where the brother's come from & you'll see a different tune. First off.. let's get this outta of the way. Both Ali & Vitali Klitschko have never faced anyone closed to resembling the other.. that's a fact.. so naming similar sized fighters when Klitschko is considered by many & Not just me to be the best fighter ever at the very least of 6ft 8 & 250 lb proportions is invalid.

Are you going to go with the fighter who has shown more weaknesses in the ring & yes Ali has proven to be more flawed than Vitali in terms of dealing with all types of opponents... sure Ali WAS magical & had incredible W's OVER REKNOWNED sluggers & slayed two of the baddest fighters in the history of the sport at the height of there invincibility.. this doesn't mean he makes it three vs Vitali. Klitschko still has the size & strength advantages over him.. ALI might have the aura but IT'S STILL Vitali that is the invincible one here & unlike Foreman & Liston before him Vitali can deliver punches from any angle & can fight while moving forward & also throw punches while backpeddling.. simply put you have to go with the boxer/puncher vs the slick boxer every time.

[damuttz112]

Originally Posted by jimmy1569

Yes.. it's because there biased towards old school but most importantly biased towards a kLItschko..

This is the problem, you believe every person that criticizes a Klitschko to be a hater. In order to justify your own reasons.

Originally Posted by jimmy1569

You go to where the brother's come from & you'll see a different tune. First off.. let's get this outta of the way. Both Ali & Vitali Klitschko have never faced anyone closed to resembling the other.. that's a fact.. so naming similar sized fighters when Klitschko is considered by many & Not just me to be the best fighter ever at the very least of 6ft 8 & 250 lb proportions is invalid.

There needs to be middle ground, places where you can connect fact with evidence.

Originally Posted by jimmy1569

Are you going to go with the fighter who has shown more weaknesses in the ring

No I will go with a fighter who is far more proven, who never ducked anybody even if it was a bad stylistic match-up.

Originally Posted by jimmy1569

& yes Ali has proven to be more flawed than Vitali in terms of dealing with all types of opponents...

Vitali two losses came in his prime, Ali never lost in his prime.

Originally Posted by jimmy1569

sure Ali WAS magical

He is the reason why Boxing is what it is today.

Originally Posted by jimmy1569

& had incredible W's OVER REKNOWNED sluggers & slayed two of the baddest fighters in the history of the sport at the height of there invincibility..

Yes 3 All-Time Greats/HOF (Foreman, Frazier, Liston)

Originally Posted by jimmy1569

this doesn't mean he makes it three vs Vitali.

I have provided my evidence.

Originally Posted by jimmy1569

Klitschko still has the size & strength advantages over him..

Which Ali has never shown to be troubled by taller opponents (Wepner, Bugner, Terrell, Foreman)

Originally Posted by jimmy1569

ALI might have the aura but IT'S STILL

Yes

Originally Posted by jimmy1569

Vitali that is the invincible one here

Two Losses (Lewis/Byrd)

Originally Posted by jimmy1569

& unlike Foreman & Liston before him Vitali can deliver punches from any angle & can fight while moving forward & also throw punches while back-peddling.

Ali is faster and the master of Lateral Movement. Which I have already proven.

[/QUOTE]

[Larry Merchant]

I dont see how any past HW champs can beat the brothers in there current form!

[damuttz112]

Muhammad Ali's Advantages:

1) Ali has greater speed, especially of foot.
2) Ali has the ability to adapt and change his fight plan.
3) Ali has the better chin and successfully absorbed the bombs of some of boxing’s most dangerous sluggers.
4) Ali was never beaten at his best; his first loss came at age 29.

The Muhammad Ali of 60’s was the fastest heavyweight ever. In the May 5, 1969 Sports Illustrated, Ali’s jab was measured with an omegascope. Ali’s jab, it was found, could smash a balsa board 16.5 inches away in 19/100 of a second. It actually covered the distance in 4/100 of a second, which is the blink of an eye. Jimmy Jacobs, who owned the world’s largest collection of fight films, said that on film tests with a synchronizer Ali’s jab was faster than that of Sugar Ray Robinson. Jacobs contended that Ali was not only the fastest heavyweight, but also the fastest fighter he ever saw on film.


Slowed down


At normal pace.

Ali's speed/footwork the use of Lateral Movement.

Evading a sweeping left hook by Patterson. Using Lateral Movement.


His ability to judge distance to jab and explode into combinations and to move out safely out of Vitali's intermediate range.

The height-Advantage will make no difference if Vitali can't force his Jab to dictate.

"Your hand can't grab what your fists can't jab, float like a butterfly & sting like a bee!"

[Superflo777]

Originally Posted by damuttz112

I have provided my evidence.

That's not evidence, that's opinion.

[jimmy1569]

Originally Posted by Superflo777

That's not evidence, that's opinion.

i'll get back to him after work... all you had to hear was the Ali better chin bit... regardless if Ali has more familiarity with the canvas than Klitschko.

[ElChicano]

Top 10 no doubt.

[damuttz112]

Ali by UD or Late Stoppage.

[Ring Leader]

His resume sucks. But head to head he is top 5 all time.