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#101
Old 08-23-2012, 01:52 PM
Cardinal Buck
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Originally Posted by Sugarj View Post
Nice to agree on something for a change matey
I clicked the green button for you yesterday too. Life's too short to hold grudges (not that had one).
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#102
Old 08-23-2012, 06:47 PM
Sugarj
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Originally Posted by Cardinal Buck View Post
I clicked the green button for you yesterday too. Life's too short to hold grudges (not that had one).
Nice one fella.

Na, I've never held a grudge in my life. I think one thing that posting on a forum highlights is that text rarely conveys a person's mood accurately.

Non of my mates are into the history of boxing and I'm very grateful to have this forum to natter about one of my passions. Most of them think Mike Tyson would knock out Ali in a few rounds! But I just have a giggle.

You'd probably find that the vast majority of us who post regularly in the history section would get on pretty well in more face to face social situations......
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#103
Old 08-23-2012, 06:48 PM
Sugarj
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Originally Posted by Cardinal Buck View Post
I clicked the green button for you yesterday too. Life's too short to hold grudges (not that had one).
Nice one fella.

Na, I've never held a grudge in my life. I think one thing that posting on a forum highlights is that text rarely conveys a person's mood accurately.

Non of my mates are into the history of boxing and I'm very grateful to have this forum to natter about one of my passions. Most of them think Mike Tyson would knock out Ali in a few rounds! But I just have a giggle.

You'd probably find that the vast majority of us who post regularly in the history section would get on pretty well in more face to face social situations......
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#104
Old 08-23-2012, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Nails View Post
You don't beat him by out slugging him. Tunney would lead him a merry chase; look what Ali did, float like a butter fly...
Ali did the opposite to beat George Foreman.

No-one is going to beat Foreman in the same way Muhammad did.

No-one else is the right combination of proud, crazy and durable
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#105
Old 08-23-2012, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Nails View Post
You don't beat him by out slugging him. Tunney would lead him a merry chase; look what Ali did, float like a butter fly...

Did you even see that fight?
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#106
Old 08-23-2012, 09:44 PM
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Ali beat foreman mentally, not physically. That's the secret and in all honesty I think there's very few others that could have done that. Rumble in the Jungle was just a special fight.

Last edited by Daddy T; 08-23-2012 at 09:49 PM.
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#107
Old 08-24-2012, 01:21 PM
res
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No, Foreman's second performance against Frazier was possibly one of his finest, he looked superb that night. The knockout was delayed because of Frazier's tactics.

Frazier did his best to impersonate Ali, he even danced in the first couple of rounds and attempted his own version of the rope a dope at times. Honestly, take a look at the fight. He was much more defensive.

The 1973 fight was over much quicker because Joe seemingly couldn't stop himself marching straight forward into Foreman's heavy blows.
I do agree with some of what you say here, it was probably a combination of the two factors. The difference is that with Frazier's "rope a dope" he was actually getting repeatedly nailed in the head and he wouldn't move off the ropes but Foreman still couldn't seriously hurt him and put him away...73' era Foreman would have in that situation. Frazier danced some at long range but whenever Foreman hit him well, his brawler instincts took over and he either stood his ground or came forward. Overall Foreman spends a lot more of his time whizzing punches over and around Frazier's bobbing head than he does actually chasing him. Frazier's bobbing and weaving looks much better, but it's hard to tell if that's because Frazier had improved on it or because Foreman fought with less authority.

Last edited by res; 08-24-2012 at 03:35 PM.
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#108
Old 08-24-2012, 01:56 PM
Scott9945
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Originally Posted by res View Post
I do agree with some of what you say here, it was probably a combination of the two factors. The difference is that with Frazier's "rope a dope" he was actually getting nailed in the head and he wouldn't move off the ropes but Foreman still couldn't seriously hurt him and put him away...73' era Foreman would have. Frazier danced some at long range but whenever Foreman hit him well, his brawler instincts took over and he either stood his ground or came forward. Overall Foreman spends a lot more of his time whizzing punches over and around Frazier's bobbing head than he does actually chasing him. Frazier's bobbing and weaving looks much better, but it's hard to tell if that's because Frazier had improved on it or because Foreman fought with less authority.

I'm pretty sure that Frazier went into their rematch with much more respect for Foreman's power. Nothing in that fight indicated to me a decline in Foreman.
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#109
Old 08-24-2012, 06:14 PM
Sugarj
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Originally Posted by res View Post
I do agree with some of what you say here, it was probably a combination of the two factors. The difference is that with Frazier's "rope a dope" he was actually getting repeatedly nailed in the head and he wouldn't move off the ropes but Foreman still couldn't seriously hurt him and put him away...73' era Foreman would have in that situation. Frazier danced some at long range but whenever Foreman hit him well, his brawler instincts took over and he either stood his ground or came forward. Overall Foreman spends a lot more of his time whizzing punches over and around Frazier's bobbing head than he does actually chasing him. Frazier's bobbing and weaving looks much better, but it's hard to tell if that's because Frazier had improved on it or because Foreman fought with less authority.
To be honest, is it just me or did the Frazier that met Foreman second time actually look better than the Frazier of 1973 (I really don't think Frazier was motivated for Foreman first time at all)?

In 1976 he landed some pretty nice left hooks at one point and there was some decent defensive bobbing and weaving in there. Frazier had of course looked superb in several rounds in his previous performance (the Thrilla in Manilla), I don't think he was shot by any means. He might well have still beaten Norton and/or Young at that point.

I really liked Foreman's performance too, he looked strong, patient, powerful and less frantic. I really thought he was superb.

On a different topic, I thought that Foreman was heading to a win over Jimmy Young too. I liked the more patient Foreman post Lyle! The problem in the Young fight came in round seven for me. When Foreman had Young hurt he unloaded everything barring the kitchen sink, you never see heavyweights throwing that many punches in one round these days.......it really affected his ability to close the fight strongly in my opinion.
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#110
Old 08-25-2012, 08:50 PM
res
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Originally Posted by Sugarj View Post


I really liked Foreman's performance too, he looked strong, patient , powerful and less frantic . I really thought he was superb.

.
The terms in bold I would certainly agree with, and that was precisely Foreman's problem at this stage of his carer in my opinion. a non-technical low stamina wrecking ball does not need to become more patient and cautious.



Quote:
To be honest, is it just me or did the Frazier that met Foreman second time actually look better than the Frazier of 1973 (I really don't think Frazier was motivated for Foreman first time at all)?
In my opinion Frazier looked motivated when he first came out in the 73' fight and he actually looked pretty good during the first moments of the round landing a few left hooks and dictating the pace with not much coming back from George but pushing and jabs. But it was almost like once he tasted Foreman's power it took something out of him, and he started fighting on instinct rather than passion.

Quote:
On a different topic, I thought that Foreman was heading to a win over Jimmy Young too. I liked the more patient Foreman post Lyle! The problem in the Young fight came in round seven for me. When Foreman had Young hurt he unloaded everything barring the kitchen sink, you never see heavyweights throwing that many punches in one round these days.......it really affected his ability to close the fight strongly in m
Round 7? See that's the thing, Foreman's prime M/0 is not to outpoint his opponent, it is to take him out, although it did happen on occasion as in the Peralta fight. In the Young fight, George Foreman was absolutely horrible when it came to cutting off the ring, nothing like in his earlier years. Look, personally I'm like you, I prefer Boxers to brawlers or sluggers, but a fighter at the end of the day should use what works for them and the more timid approach that George seemed to develop after Ali duped him the way that he did, failed to maximize George's make up as a fighter. It made him start to second guess himself and consequently, to become a different fighter.

Last edited by res; 08-25-2012 at 09:01 PM.
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