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#1
Old 08-17-2012, 07:00 AM
rightsideup
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Default tyson with jimmy Jacobs and kevin rooney

how much longer does his prime go on? If these gents are involved to the end of his carrer
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#2
Old 08-17-2012, 09:55 AM
Ray Corso
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Cus was number one and Jimmy number two for Mike to be able to cope with everything he needed those two the most. He didn't trust Cayton once King stuck his hand out and that was another bad mistake Mike made. I thought Teddy did a better job with Mike than Kevin ( I worked Mikes corners with Teddy at the Olympic T.C) but Mike screwed that all up with Teddy! Kevin did a good job and was one of Cus's guys just like Teddy was but Cus sploiled Mike and none of that sat well with anyone. Disfunctional Family! Ray.


No one back then could fight with Mike but there was always Evander that they knew wouldn't box him he'd fight! Thats what you need to do with the bully styled guy, beat him up! If you can!
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#3
Old 08-17-2012, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rightsideup View Post
how much longer does his prime go on? If these gents are involved to the end of his carrer
I'm not too sure. Granted.....Rooney was an excellent trainer that was perfect for Tyson's style, but he did have problems motivating Tyson at times. Tyson could be difficult!

As for Jacobs, its hard to say how much of a father figure he really was for Mike......or how much time he was really able to spend with Mike after the death of Cus. There was clear respect and love between them, but I doubt that Jimmy could have stopped Tyson's wild/self destructive habits.

The real problem for Mike was the death of Cus. If Cus had an extra 10-15 years in him and Rooney was kept on board it could have been interesting. Tyson's affection for Cus is still very much in evidence today......but who is to say that Tyson might not have had a falling out with him somewhere down the line?

If Tyson kept on the straight and narrow, Cus & Jimmy survived much longer & Rooney was kept on as trainer..............then yes, Tyson's prime would likely have lasted a fair bit longer. But I doubt that he would have still been considered 'prime' post 30 years old, perhaps a few years earlier! His style is not one which normally lends itself to much longevity (short limbed, fast reflexes, pressure fighter).

I think that he'd have still had a tough match with Buster Douglas (who was superb that night!!!). He'd have had a ridiculously tough fight with Evander Holyfield. I think Bowe would have been a nasty matchup too. Even the comebacking Foreman would have bounced quite a few heavy punches off Tyson enroute to a likely decision loss. Ray Mercer would be a tough fight as well.......and a fight with Oliver McCall could be quite draining. I find it hard to estimate how Tyson would do against Lennox Lewis. I think that Tyson would knock out the pre Steward Lewis (too many defensive flaws). But in 1997 at 31 years old (11 years in world class), if Tyson were to face the Manny Steward trained Lennox Lewis, that might have even been tricky with Cus & Rooney in his corner!!
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#4
Old 08-17-2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarj View Post
I'm not too sure. Granted.....Rooney was an excellent trainer that was perfect for Tyson's style, but he did have problems motivating Tyson at times. Tyson could be difficult!

As for Jacobs, its hard to say how much of a father figure he really was for Mike......or how much time he was really able to spend with Mike after the death of Cus. There was clear respect and love between them, but I doubt that Jimmy could have stopped Tyson's wild/self destructive habits.

The real problem for Mike was the death of Cus. If Cus had an extra 10-15 years in him and Rooney was kept on board it could have been interesting. Tyson's affection for Cus is still very much in evidence today......but who is to say that Tyson might not have had a falling out with him somewhere down the line?

If Tyson kept on the straight and narrow, Cus & Jimmy survived much longer & Rooney was kept on as trainer..............then yes, Tyson's prime would likely have lasted a fair bit longer. But I doubt that he would have still been considered 'prime' post 30 years old, perhaps a few years earlier! His style is not one which normally lends itself to much longevity (short limbed, fast reflexes, pressure fighter).

I think that he'd have still had a tough match with Buster Douglas (who was superb that night!!!). He'd have had a ridiculously tough fight with Evander Holyfield. I think Bowe would have been a nasty matchup too. Even the comebacking Foreman would have bounced quite a few heavy punches off Tyson enroute to a likely decision loss. Ray Mercer would be a tough fight as well.......and a fight with Oliver McCall could be quite draining. I find it hard to estimate how Tyson would do against Lennox Lewis. I think that Tyson would knock out the pre Steward Lewis (too many defensive flaws). But in 1997 at 31 years old (11 years in world class), if Tyson were to face the Manny Steward trained Lennox Lewis, that might have even been tricky with Cus & Rooney in his corner!!
He was so badly managed when he got out of jail in '95. He had four non-competitive short fights which did not prepare him properly for a Holyfield fight. He was not prepared to go 12 hard rounds and apparantly did not have the right team.

But, I'm wondering what time period when Mike really did lose his edge. He actually did look somewhat good even just before the Lewis fight. I thought he showed very good skills against Francis and even showed some shades of his old self against Nielson. It's almost as if there was something medically wrong with him in the Lennox Lewis fight. And, after that fight was done he seemed as though he was completely done.

But, then again against Danny Williams he looked so good in the first three rounds. I really did believe he would become champ again easily. I suppose it wasn't meant to be. The McBride fight did not make any kind of logical sense at all. I'm sure he could have beaten him if he really wanted to. It's like he just didn't care anymore.
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#5
Old 08-17-2012, 01:34 PM
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An addict is an addict. Tyson always had a problem with drugs. I went to see his broadway show in New York and I learned that he was actually on drugs while living with Cus. Cus found a bag of his dope in his room and said "This must be some good **** for you to have all the success you've had while you're taking it. Now imagine what you could do without it."

With all the money and Cus getting older it's hard to say whether or not Tyson would be able to stay straight, because Cus would be at an age where he would never be able to keep up with Mike during his travels. Women, drugs, etc. all would have caught up to him sooner or later. Nobody could have kept him off the path of self destruction. That isn't to say meeting Don King didn't help move it along.
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#6
Old 08-17-2012, 02:56 PM
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shoulda woulda coulda doesnt mean too much. When a reign ends, it ends. And unfortunately every reign ends sooner or later. Joe Louis is regarded as the best or one of the best cause of his longevity. The test of time is the biggest out there.
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#7
Old 08-17-2012, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintcar923 View Post
He was so badly managed when he got out of jail in '95. He had four non-competitive short fights which did not prepare him properly for a Holyfield fight. He was not prepared to go 12 hard rounds and apparantly did not have the right team.

But, I'm wondering what time period when Mike really did lose his edge. He actually did look somewhat good even just before the Lewis fight. I thought he showed very good skills against Francis and even showed some shades of his old self against Nielson. It's almost as if there was something medically wrong with him in the Lennox Lewis fight. And, after that fight was done he seemed as though he was completely done.

But, then again against Danny Williams he looked so good in the first three rounds. I really did believe he would become champ again easily. I suppose it wasn't meant to be. The McBride fight did not make any kind of logical sense at all. I'm sure he could have beaten him if he really wanted to. It's like he just didn't care anymore.
Bingo! He stopped caring. In the interview after the McBride fight he said he didn't have it in him any more and that his career had been over since 1990. I think losing in 1990 was almost a relief for Mike and he never truly got the fire back.
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#8
Old 08-17-2012, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintcar923 View Post
He was so badly managed when he got out of jail in '95. He had four non-competitive short fights which did not prepare him properly for a Holyfield fight. He was not prepared to go 12 hard rounds and apparantly did not have the right team.

But, I'm wondering what time period when Mike really did lose his edge. He actually did look somewhat good even just before the Lewis fight. I thought he showed very good skills against Francis and even showed some shades of his old self against Nielson. It's almost as if there was something medically wrong with him in the Lennox Lewis fight. And, after that fight was done he seemed as though he was completely done.

But, then again against Danny Williams he looked so good in the first three rounds. I really did believe he would become champ again easily. I suppose it wasn't meant to be. The McBride fight did not make any kind of logical sense at all. I'm sure he could have beaten him if he really wanted to. It's like he just didn't care anymore.
Are you kidding? Tyson was managed brilliantly after he got out of prison. He got like 20-30 million for fighting Peter McNeely. Everyone thought that Holyfield was shot and had little chance. He wasn't and these things happen. And Tyson went on to make multi millions after the Holyfield losses (and suspension) against weak competition.

And did you ever wonder why Tyson showed "very good skills" against Julius Frances and looked like crap against Lennox Lewis? There was nothing wrong with Mike other than being washed up. It's called quality of opposition. It's not impressive to look good against Julius Francis and Brian Neilson.
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#9
Old 08-18-2012, 01:52 AM
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I'd say Tyson's prime would've lasted a few more years. He probably beats almost every top heavyweight contender, except Holyfield and maybe Lewis in the early '90s.
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#10
Old 08-18-2012, 12:54 PM
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For anybody wondering or doubting about Jacobs' relationship with Mike Tyson, this video provides excellent details from the intelligent, well mannered late Jim Jacobs.



I think that despite losing Cus, Tyson still would have fulfilled all of his potential with Jacobs on his side because the man was brilliant.

But one thing that has bothered me the past few years was when Tyson, in his 2009 docu, said some negative things about him which honestly shocked me.
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