Why is Ray Robinson considered the greatest?

[bojangles1987]

Originally Posted by Nagabilly

Okay I get that he had impressive skills and great resume, but why do most people rank him above Sam Langford? I admit I don't know much about him either but I gathered that he beat ATGs from lightweight to heavyweight and I thought this guy must be the best ever.

I've seen more than a few people that rank Langford above Robinson. Nothing wrong with that.

[RubenSonny]

Originally Posted by Barnburner

Yes it was a shame.

Robinson was offered a sum to fight an opponent or something like that, upon hearing it was Burley he doubled what he wanted for his purse, I think they were trying to get them to fight around '42.

He said things like "I am too pretty to fight him."

It would have been a great resume booster as Burley is held in very high regard.

Burley took it all in his stride though and remained classy.

Keep in mind that Burley was a middleweight while Robinson was a welterweight.

[Barnburner]

Originally Posted by RubenSonny

Keep in mind that Burley was a middleweight while Robinson was a welterweight.

In '42 Burley weighed as low as 148.5.

[Panamaniac]

Originally Posted by Nagabilly

Okay I get that he had impressive skills and great resume, but why do most people rank him above Sam Langford? I admit I don't know much about him either but I gathered that he beat ATGs from lightweight to heavyweight and I thought this guy must be the best ever.

Except for the name - and assuming what you say about his record is true - I don't know that much about Sam Langford, nor am I compelled to delve further, but I will release this trial baloon: All else being equal, maybe Robinson is ranked higher because he's more charismatic, handsome, graceful and with a more crowd-pleasing boxing style.

[Barnburner]

Originally Posted by Panamaniac

Except for the name - and assuming what you say about his record is true - I don't know that much about Sam Langford, nor am I compelled to delve further, but I will release this trial baloon: All else being equal, maybe Robinson is ranked higher because he's more charismatic, handsome, graceful and with a more crowd-pleasing boxing style.

It's actually because there is little good quality footage of Sam Langford and from what film we have Robinson looks absolutely spectacular.

Going purely by resume for example, I rank Greb as Robinson's equal but when it comes to an overall list, Robinson edges it as I know he looks very skilled and very hard to beat on film whereas I have no such evidence for Greb.

[Panamaniac]

Originally Posted by Barnburner

It's actually because there is little good quality footage of Sam Langford and from what film we have Robinson looks absolutely spectacular.

Going purely by resume for example, I rank Greb as Robinson's equal but when it comes to an overall list, Robinson edges it as I know he looks very skilled and very hard to beat on film whereas I have no such evidence for Greb.

That's as good a reason as any. Maybe those who actually saw them fight in their prime (may they RIP) would bestow a more favorable ranking upon Langford. But as viewed from this era, Robinson's king!

[Panamaniac]

Originally Posted by Barnburner

...Going purely by resume for example, I rank Greb as Robinson's equal but when it comes to an overall list, Robinson edges it as I know he looks very skilled and very hard to beat on film whereas I have no such evidence for Greb.

If by "resumé" you mean their full boxing record, I don't render judgement on that basis. In evaluating a fighter's worth, I consider his record only before and during his prime or peak of boxing prowess. Many fighters hang-on for paydays way past their prime, they volunteer as human punching bags while diluting their boxing record. Roberto Duran, who makes most top 10 p4p lists, did this to the extreme.

[Visceral]

He was ridiculously ahead of his time with his skill, ring intellegence, style, and talent. Truly stands alone

[Barnburner]

Originally Posted by Panamaniac

If by "resumé" you mean their full boxing record, I don't render judgement on that basis. In evaluating a fighter's worth, I consider his record only before and during his prime or peak of boxing prowess. Many fighters hang-on for paydays way past their prime, they volunteer as human punching bags while diluting their boxing record. Roberto Duran, who makes most top 10 p4p lists, did this to the extreme.

Yes but if they are past prime you don't critic their losses as much, it's all circumstantial.
For example no-one even cares to mention Ali's losses to Holmes or Berbick when ranking him but, if you take a fighter like Lennox Lewis who was pretty past it when he beat Vitali, he gets a lot more credit for that.

It's not just a case of who has the best names on their resume which is why it's so hard to compile a well thought out list. Only the best historians can make a list which truly represents their opinions as a lot of work needs to go into it. It's something I haven't done, and probably will not do.

[Mikhnienko]

Originally Posted by BRITISH LlON

Robinson won something like 100 fights before losing to Jake La Motta for the first time. Robinson fought in an era in which there were no light middleweight or super middleweight divisions. That would be the same as Sergio Martinez fighting not only the best middleweights, but also the best super middlweights (Andre Ward for example) and the best light middleweights (Miguel Cotto e.g.) in the world. So the division was a lot deeper, cause basically it were 3 divisions which were called the "middleweight" division.
And Robinson is so great cause he came back after his losses and won the fight against the guys who defeated him before: Carmen Basilio, Gene Fullmer, Randy Turpin, La Motta etc.
Thats the same what Ali did: he won the rematches. Imagine how hard it is to beat a guy who you werent able to beat the first time. But SRR overcame everything and thats why is the ATG

Yet he never ended up fighting Burley, Williams, Cocoa, Lausse, Marshall, Lytell. Not saying he is expected to have fought all of them but missing every single one of them while finding the time to fight Lamotta 5 times is something pretty hard to overlook along with all of them aside from Lausse being Black.