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View Poll Results: What's Worse: Pacquiao draining Cotto by 2 lbs, Or Ward draining Dawson by 7 lbs?
Ward weight-draining Dawson by 7 pounds is WORSE 84 37.84%
Pacquiao weight-draining Cotto by 2 pounds is WORSE 80 36.04%
They about the same 13 5.86%
None 45 20.27%
Voters: 222. You may not vote on this poll

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#311
Old 07-30-2012, 04:06 PM
RL_GMA
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Originally Posted by FUC_U_PAYME View Post
imho back in armstrong day it was more acceptable to fans because of the big gaps in weight class
This is true.
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#312
Old 07-30-2012, 04:24 PM
pgolf
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Originally Posted by FUC_U_PAYME View Post
imho back in armstrong day it was more acceptable to fans because of the big gaps in weight class
Probably.

IMO, the only acceptable weight is the weight that is agreed upon by both fighters. Regardless if your last name is Ward, Armstrong, Pacquiao, Leonard, etc.. Your opponent agreed to fight at the specified weight.

Which is worse, Pac or Ward? Neither, they are equally opportunistic.
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#313
Old 07-30-2012, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by pgolf View Post
Probably.

IMO, the only acceptable weight is the weight that is agreed upon by both fighters. Regardless if your last name is Ward, Armstrong, Pacquiao, Leonard, etc.. Your opponent agreed to fight at the specified weight.

Which is worse, Pac or Ward? Neither, they are equally opportunistic.
so its okey to use your financial leverage to get an advantage in the ring? we shouldnt even care if fighters compete under even circumstances no more?

where is the limit though? apparently its okey to use your stature in the sport to give yourself an edge in the ring. is it also okey to use steroids or loaded gloves? thats being opportunistic too isnt it?

its against the rules but fighting at a catchweight is making your own rules and draining an opponent is just as dangerous to their health. how about corrupting judges and referees? very oppertunistic dont you think?


one of the things that made me a fan of boxing in the first place is that its just two men competing under even circumstances with nothing else interfering, just man against man and may the best man win.

obviously there will always be advantages in any sport going one way or the other but i think we should atleast strive for an even playing field and critisize any fighter who refuses to fight without an advantage.

they might agree to the catchweight but thats the only way to get the fight, it shouldnt be like that. even the top fighters hould have to box under even circumstances. old school fighters didnt need an advantage to fight anyone, and they would fight anyone too.

Last edited by #1Assassin; 07-30-2012 at 05:13 PM.
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#314
Old 07-30-2012, 07:09 PM
pgolf
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@#1Assassin: A catchweight or unnecessarily move up or down in weight is a risk/reward proposition for a fighter. If both men agree and the fight is sanctioned by the respective athletic commission, they fight, we watch and then we move on to the next fight.

We both agree that catch weights are opportunistic.
Here is a list of high profile opportunists. Depending on the definition of old school, at least two of these cats are definitely old school.
JCC Sr.
Terry Norris
Sugar Ray Leonard
BHop
FMJ
Pac
ODLH
Henry Armstrong
Joe Walcott
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#315
Old 07-31-2012, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RL_GMA View Post
Based on his fight with Clottey just prior, Cotto made 146 and didn't look / seemed drained more than him maybe not having the best camp / corner to prepare him for the fight let alone still having the whole Margarito situation looming over him. I mean, Cotto looked in great shape for Pacquiao to be honest



Based on what I what I saw, Cotto had a good game plan early on by Boxing and creating offense at times, but he made the mistake of going toe to toe with Pacquiao and he paid for it. I really didn't see a weight drained Cotto more than someone who quite possibly underestimated Pac's speed / power and lacked a real trainer for that caliber of a fight.
Cotto wasn't going to beat Pacquiao. But had he fought at 147, and was able to rehydrate properly, he would've had late rounds reserves, and he could've jabbed/held to fend Pacquiao off more. Pacquiao beat him up good, but Cotto lasted into the 12th on sheer will.

A sign that a fighter is drained. He stops throwing punches, moves, and concentrates on defense.
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#316
Old 07-31-2012, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgolf View Post
@#1Assassin: A catchweight or unnecessarily move up or down in weight is a risk/reward proposition for a fighter. If both men agree and the fight is sanctioned by the respective athletic commission, they fight, we watch and then we move on to the next fight.

We both agree that catch weights are opportunistic.
Here is a list of high profile opportunists. Depending on the definition of old school, at least two of these cats are definitely old school.
JCC Sr.
Terry Norris
Sugar Ray Leonard
BHop
FMJ
Pac
ODLH
Henry Armstrong
Joe Walcott
Catchweight isn't necessarily opportunistic there is certain cases where it makes sense like Dawson vs Ward or Floyd vs Martinez for example but its been bastardized as of late there is no reason what so ever for Cotto vs Pacquiao to be at a catchweight at all
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#317
Old 07-31-2012, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Ducketts View Post
Cotto wasn't going to beat Pacquiao. But had he fought at 147, and was able to rehydrate properly, he would've had late rounds reserves, and he could've jabbed/held to fend Pacquiao off more. Pacquiao beat him up good, but Cotto lasted into the 12th on sheer will.

A sign that a fighter is drained. He stops throwing punches, moves, and concentrates on defense.
Cotto is drained 1 lb against Pacquaio < Floyd overweight 2 lbs against lightweight Marquez
one is honorable > one is shameless
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#318
Old 08-13-2012, 04:00 PM
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The poll is virtually neck and neck, which I find surprising. Smells like a double standard to me..
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#319
Old 08-13-2012, 04:06 PM
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Here's what it comes down to. At what weight does Ward come in during fight night, anyone know?

If it's way over 168 then he could have went up and fought Dawson, instead of Chad going down. I don't care if Chad called him out at 168, of course the "lesser" star of the two will have to cave in to the opponents demands, or at least offer something they'd take. The question is, do you think Ward would have taken this fight if Dawson called him out at 175? I personally don't think so. That's why they're the same to me.
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#320
Old 08-13-2012, 04:08 PM
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TS explain to me how Ward is draining Dawson when Dawson said he could fight at 168? Ward never asked for Dawson to come down to 168 for the fight. You got stuff all wrong IMO.
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