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#1
Old 07-22-2012, 03:22 PM
them_apples
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Default The Myth that SRL changed his style and beat Duran

I don't like how this get's thrown around. The biggest difference is Duran looked like a shell of the brawl in montreal and SRL didn't fight back as much.

Leonard never truly got Durans number. Yeah Duran quit and had stomach cramps or whatever, I don't doubt that he wasn't in shape, but SRL didn't do **** either, he just clowned him from the outside - that doesn't win you points.

The other thing that bothers me: SRL fought everyone up untill Duran, he knocked a lot of guys out. He knocked Benitez out. He never changed his style cause he was angry. He always fought. Then he ran into someone that could out fight him.

Duran in the first fight was shredded from head to toe and nearly matching Leonard for speed, and dare I say..out skilling him.

There is not to many welterweights beating that version of Duran.
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#2
Old 07-22-2012, 03:26 PM
IronDanHamza
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Originally Posted by them_apples View Post
I don't like how this get's thrown around. The biggest difference is Duran looked like a shell of the brawl in montreal and SRL didn't fight back as much.

Leonard never truly got Durans number. Yeah Duran quit and had stomach cramps or whatever, I don't doubt that he wasn't in shape, but SRL didn't do **** either, he just clowned him from the outside - that doesn't win you points.

The other thing that bothers me: SRL fought everyone up untill Duran, he knocked a lot of guys out. He knocked Benitez out. He never changed his style cause he was angry. He always fought. Then he ran into someone that could out fight him.

Duran in the first fight was shredded from head to toe and nearly matching Leonard for speed, and dare I say..out skilling him.

There is not to many welterweights beating that version of Duran.
He did outskill him in the first fight. And no need to say "dare I say", Duran was as skilled as Leonard, if not more.

Of course Leonard doesn't have Duran's number, when they fought each other when both were at their best, Duran won.
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#3
Old 07-22-2012, 06:00 PM
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Like it or not the strategy for the second fight was much better by Leonard.

Had Duran been as prepared as he was for the first fight, he still wouldn't have expected Leonard to box and move. It was a style that was not ideal for Duran.

We'd have probably seen another very competitive fight, but I'm sure Leonard would have won the return regardless.
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#4
Old 07-22-2012, 06:37 PM
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Its hard to say if ray would have won from the outside as roberto hurt him from the outside in the first fight in round two. Ray openly admits that he forced the second fight so soon because he new duran was out of shape.
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#5
Old 07-22-2012, 07:01 PM
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Duran trained to make weight limits, not train for a specific fighter after his first Leonard fight! Thats when Arcel & Brown said enough is enough, you folks need to realize that Duran training himself compared to his original team telling him what to do leads to two very different fighters, and out comes. Great trainers don't "play" with "pick up the cash at any cost" fighters. Duran could fight at 145 to 49 because thats what he hydrated to after making 135. In his early days he only went up to 141 but as you get older thats not healthy and you need to rehydrate even more with age. He had some good wins at 47 and above but being KO'ed by Hearns and losses to Camacho (are you kidding me) pretty much tells the story why he was a terrific LW and a decent average competitor above that. Without his "name" as a LW he wouldn't have done squat as a WW and a MdW is is just ridiculous. Ray
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#6
Old 07-22-2012, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post
He did outskill him in the first fight. And no need to say "dare I say", Duran was as skilled as Leonard, if not more.

Of course Leonard doesn't have Duran's number, when they fought each other when both were at their best, Duran won.
The first fight was still pretty close when Leonard fought more flat-footed. Duran was great no doubt. I'm a huge fan of his. But, he had two more opportunities to prove his dominance and he failed miserably both times. When Ray used pure boxing tactics Duran just simply couldn't cope with it. But, there will always be the excuses. Well, he wasn't in shape, he had stomach cramps, he was past it etc. I just don't think thats fair at all to SRL. He had his number and Duran knew it. The evidence? When was the last time you saw a great fighter quit a fight just cause he was out of shape?!
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#7
Old 07-22-2012, 10:19 PM
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the second fight is so such a bizare finish it will always haunt duran's legacy he
was probly out of shape against hearns but went out on his shield. Ray and Roberto became friends later and duran did even admit after the first fight that ray was the best he ever fought.
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#8
Old 07-23-2012, 09:10 AM
IronDanHamza
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Originally Posted by Mintcar923 View Post
The first fight was still pretty close when Leonard fought more flat-footed. Duran was great no doubt. I'm a huge fan of his. But, he had two more opportunities to prove his dominance and he failed miserably both times. When Ray used pure boxing tactics Duran just simply couldn't cope with it. But, there will always be the excuses. Well, he wasn't in shape, he had stomach cramps, he was past it etc. I just don't think thats fair at all to SRL. He had his number and Duran knew it. The evidence? When was the last time you saw a great fighter quit a fight just cause he was out of shape?!
It was close to degree, Duran still won the fight clearly.

The second fight wasn't even the domination you're acting like it was either.

And the 3rd fight?

The fact is, when both of them fought each other when both of them were at their absolute best, Duran won the fight. Hard to say that's a guy who had his number.
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#9
Old 07-23-2012, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by them_apples View Post
I don't like how this get's thrown around. The biggest difference is Duran looked like a shell of the brawl in montreal and SRL didn't fight back as much.

Leonard never truly got Durans number. Yeah Duran quit and had stomach cramps or whatever, I don't doubt that he wasn't in shape, but SRL didn't do **** either, he just clowned him from the outside - that doesn't win you points.

The other thing that bothers me: SRL fought everyone up untill Duran, he knocked a lot of guys out. He knocked Benitez out. He never changed his style cause he was angry. He always fought. Then he ran into someone that could out fight him.

Duran in the first fight was shredded from head to toe and nearly matching Leonard for speed, and dare I say..out skilling him.

There is not to many welterweights beating that version of Duran.
I find it amazing for anyone to say the biggest difference was that duran was out of shape or was a shell of himself from the 1st fight.
How can anyone not see how Leonard moved differently? I just watched the 1st round of both fights, and it is clear Leonard is more flat footed in the first fight, giving Duran opportunities to attack. Plus Leonard feints and jabs to the body way more in the rematch, obviously trying to tease out Durans lead for counter punching opportunities. Leonard threw many more power punches in the 1st fight and imo clearly wanted to out fight Duran.
In the rematch he knew better, and its obvious from the 1st round. He never lets his back touch the ropes and there are fewer clinches because Leonard was moving away from Duran much more than in the 1st fight.

Theres no denying Duran wasnt at his best, but imo he got outboxed, frustrated and the stomach cramps were an excuse. He was getting nailed more and more with good shots.
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#10
Old 07-23-2012, 03:09 PM
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I think that in the 1st fight, Leonards ego (every bit as big as Durans) told him - I'm faster, younger, and the naturally bigger man. I think he convinced himself that he could flat outfight Duran, it was a mistake and he lost. For the second fight, I believe Leonard did in fact tweak his style (Leonard actually confirmed this to reportes) to include much more movement and appeared to be on his way to a comfortable decision when Duran pulled the plug. I think Leonard learned alot in the first fight and his boxing IQ never let him down again
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