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#11
Old 07-05-2012, 07:36 PM
Miburo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxing Bob View Post
Salvador Sanchez KO 15 Azumah Nelson. Sanchez died tragically soon after and at that time no one knew Nelson would become a ATG. A great win you never hear much about
You hear a ton about it. If anything it's overrated, considering how badly the odds were stacked against an extremely green Nelson.
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#12
Old 07-05-2012, 08:16 PM
Scott9945
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Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post
Harold Johnson's wins over Eddie Machen and Nino Valdez at HW.
Johnson may be the mosty truly underrated ex-champion in boxing history. Others will say that Ezzaed Charles is, but he has been labeled that so often already he really isn't anymore. Nobody (in the media at least) ever gives Harold Johnson his due respect.
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#13
Old 07-06-2012, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott9945 View Post
Holmes-Mercer wasn't for any heavyweight title.
Well, it wasn't lineal or anything but if my memory serves me right it was for the WBO championship belt.. Its a possibility I could be wrong but I don't think so...
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#14
Old 07-06-2012, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintcar923 View Post
Well, it wasn't lineal or anything but if my memory serves me right it was for the WBO championship belt.. Its a possibility I could be wrong but I don't think so...
You're wrong. The fight served as a eliminator. Mercer was supposed to get the shot at Holyfield, but Holmes got it instead. The last title fight win by Holmes was Carl Williams.

Last edited by Scott9945; 07-06-2012 at 11:11 AM.
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#15
Old 07-06-2012, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintcar923 View Post
Well, it wasn't lineal or anything but if my memory serves me right it was for the WBO championship belt.. Its a possibility I could be wrong but I don't think so...
The WBO title wasn't on the line. Mercer had reliquished it after fighting Tommy Morrison (the fight immediately before Holmes).

Its a shame the comebacking Holmes never actually won a heavyweight title, the fight with Mercer should have really been for the WBO title. It was no surprise that Larry couldn't match Holyfield's workrate when they met soon after. That said, Holmes did win rounds though and was far from embarrassed!

The McCall fight for the WBC title in 1995 was very close too, he nearly eaked that one out to my eyes.
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#16
Old 07-06-2012, 11:52 AM
IronDanHamza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott9945 View Post
Johnson may be the mosty truly underrated ex-champion in boxing history. Others will say that Ezzaed Charles is, but he has been labeled that so often already he really isn't anymore. Nobody (in the media at least) ever gives Harold Johnson his due respect.
He's definitely one of them, no doubt about it.

Those wins I highlighted over Valdez and Machen at HW are up there with Sonny Liston's best wins. And they aren't even nearly Johnson's best wins. That alone tells you how underrated he actually is.

Add the fact he was 176 Lbs against Valdez, who was a legit 200+ lb Heavyweight. Johnson never weighed much over 180 Lbs in any of his HW fights and most of them he would weigh less than 180 Lbs.

The amount of Top ranked opposition he beat was incredible. Over 20 during his career across Light Heavyweight and Heavyweight.

Wins over the likes of Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Jimmy Bivins, Bert Lytell, Willie Pastrano and that's just the surface.
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#17
Old 07-06-2012, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugarj View Post
The WBO title wasn't on the line. Mercer had reliquished it after fighting Tommy Morrison (the fight immediately before Holmes).

Its a shame the comebacking Holmes never actually won a heavyweight title, the fight with Mercer should have really been for the WBO title. It was no surprise that Larry couldn't match Holyfield's workrate when they met soon after. That said, Holmes did win rounds though and was far from embarrassed!

The McCall fight for the WBC title in 1995 was very close too, he nearly eaked that one out to my eyes.
Perhaps you are right as my memory may be a bit hazy...LOL! I guess you could say it was for the lineal WBO belt I do think it's awesome that Holmes and Foreman were still able to compete at their advanced ages. I suppose it's a quality that some boxers have but most don't.

I have been watching a bit of Larry's earlier fights and he did have immense boxing skills. I think a lot of people overlook him being he happen to come immediately after Ali. In a way that was a shame. It would have been really interesting if he came upon the title picture in the early '70's. Funny, you had mentioned the McCall fight. I met Oliver a few days after the Holmes fight and we became friends. I'd bring my boxing tapes over his house as we were neighbors at that time. His brother and I would talk about boxing for hours on end!

As far as Foreman, he actually did win the "true" heavyweight title. It was an unbelievable moment back in '94. Just think, if he'd have never come back I doubt he'd have as much respect and popularity as he has now. God works in mysterious ways!!
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#18
Old 07-06-2012, 05:18 PM
Sugarj
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Originally Posted by Mintcar923 View Post
Perhaps you are right as my memory may be a bit hazy...LOL! I guess you could say it was for the lineal WBO belt I do think it's awesome that Holmes and Foreman were still able to compete at their advanced ages. I suppose it's a quality that some boxers have but most don't.

I have been watching a bit of Larry's earlier fights and he did have immense boxing skills. I think a lot of people overlook him being he happen to come immediately after Ali. In a way that was a shame. It would have been really interesting if he came upon the title picture in the early '70's. Funny, you had mentioned the McCall fight. I met Oliver a few days after the Holmes fight and we became friends. I'd bring my boxing tapes over his house as we were neighbors at that time. His brother and I would talk about boxing for hours on end!

As far as Foreman, he actually did win the "true" heavyweight title. It was an unbelievable moment back in '94. Just think, if he'd have never come back I doubt he'd have as much respect and popularity as he has now. God works in mysterious ways!!
That Holmes and Foreman were able to return to world class and perform well is astonishing. Many consider the 90s to be a very strong era too, perhaps only second to the 70s.

I've always rated Holmes. I'm glad people are finally starting to appreciate his legend. I'd personally have him in at 2 or 3 as heavyweights go......superb technician!

Yes, it is strange that the McCall fight came up......its terrific that you befriended him. I bet he has some good tales, he has had quite a life! Best chin in heavyweight history in my book!

And as for the George Foreman comeback. Yes.........can't see anything like that happening again in our lifetime. I've said it before.....we never saw Foreman's prime. I personally think that he would have peaked around 1980-1982. In his first incarnation (1969-1977) he was a little wild and had a tendency to have problems with pacing himself. In his second incarnation (1987-1998) he was slower due to age and weight, his workrate was less, but his pacing was superb.

A mix of both incarnations of Foreman might well have been near as dammit impossible to beat.
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#19
Old 07-07-2012, 07:57 PM
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Floyd Mayweather vs Juan Manuel Marquez is at the top of my list and I can't think of anything that comes even remotely close to that. Mayweather returned to the ring after a 21 month layoff and completely dominated the #2 pound for pound guy, winning every single round clearly and knocking him down. The only reason why Marquez wasn't p4p #1 is because he lost a highly controversial split decision to Manny Pacquiao which the vast majority of the boxing media and boxing experts believe should have went to him. Most people seem to think Marquez beat Pacquiao twice and some even claim that he deserved to win all 3 of their bouts. I view Marquez as the #2 boxer in this era behind Floyd so in my opinion it was basically #1 vs #2 in that bout, which Mayweather completely dominated, yet he received at least 5 times more criticism than credit for doing it. Yes Marquez had to come up two weight divisions but Floyd had been out of the ring for almost 2 years and Marquez has since proved (in the 3rd Pacquiao fight) that he is just as good at 147 as he is at 135. People hate Floyd so much that they give Pacquiao more credit for his gift decisions over Marquez than they give to him for completing shutting him out and winning every single round dominantly.

Humberto Gonzalez also doesn't seem to get much credit for beating Jung-Koo Chang far more convincingly than anybody else. Yes the Korean legend was coming out of retirement for the bout and was clearly past his best, but Gonzalez was yet to hit his prime and managed to almost completely dominate while never being in any trouble at any point of the contest. Shortly afterwards Chang rematched with what appears to have been a peaking Sot Chitalada, one of the best Thai boxers of all time and I have read more than one person claim that he deserved to win that one. Even in his last bout he fought the guy who had stopped Chitalada and fought him on even terms before finally being stopped in the 12th round. I have never seen anyone mention this win with regards to Gonzalez' legacy and who he beat. I view it as being a very good win.

I also think that Khaosai Galaxy doesn't get the credit he deserves for beating Ellyas Pical. Alot of people seem to think that Galaxy just beat Israel Contreras and a bunch of no hopers in Thailand. He actually beat a lot of good and some very good guys. I don't know whether they're just uneducated or want to ignore it, but it seems to happen naturally. When you dominate your opponents and make it look easy, people automatically assume that you haven't been or weren't tested against legitimate threats. Ellyas Pical was a legitimate threat. He was a 3-time world champion, he had knockout power and Galaxy fought him in his home country of Indonesia. He didn't just beat him either, he dominated him and knocked him out. Pical was the IBF champion at the time.

Last edited by JK1700; 07-07-2012 at 08:03 PM.
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#20
Old 07-08-2012, 05:48 PM
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I got mad respect for Floyd Mayweather as far as his boxing skills. But, I was watching the Gatti fight last night and I noticed something. Whenever theres some sort of pause in the action or the guy looks the other way Floyd attacks. It was the same s**t he did in the Ortiz fight. To me, thats just not cool..
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