Which knuckles to land a punch with? Jack Dempsey, his book and the "power line"

[Spartacus Sully]

Originally Posted by Defututus

wish i had something to punch around here
but after throwing a couple of slo-mo shadowboxing like punches along with imagining how i usually do it, i dont even know anymore
all i know is that i want to land with my middle-knuckle, w/e else knuckle gets in is not my concern, i would never look to land with my index, considering the gap between index and middle it feels like a good way to break somethin if the head moves and i can't get my middle finger in, and the only knuckles i've ever bruised/broken are my middle and ring finger, middle has gotten pretty banged up before, so although my index finger gets in, the others definitely take the grunt of the force

speaking of which, i have a bruised ring finger right now

i really dont care, im going to punch how i want to, and you can punch how you want to.

the threads been around since 2009, nearly 3 years, i gave my advice and walt gave the same advice, then 3 years later 2 guys decide to show up and say......that advicve is going to get people hurt!!!!


its been 3 years!!!!! id think if that advice got some one hurt, we would have herd about it by now.

[TheHolyCross]

Originally Posted by Spartacus Sully

i really dont care, im going to punch how i want to, and you can punch how you want to.

the threads been around since 2009, nearly 3 years, i gave my advice and walt gave the same advice, then 3 years later 2 guys decide to show up and say......that advicve is going to get people hurt!!!!


its been 3 years!!!!! id think if that advice got some one hurt, we would have herd about it by now.

this is basically what i was saying, except in a nice way....fukin prick

and i've seen you're stupid heavybag video i think you should stop giving advice, all you're crap comes from books, you've never left your mothers basement i bet

also john l sullivan, fitzsimmons come from an era where technique was disgraceful, sullivan sure as hell wouldn't hit anyone with the punch he hit that speedbag during the slo-mo, that was just weirdly angled for the bag, i've seen plenty of fighters do that to the speedbag, doesn't mean they'd punch like that in a fight and im not even trying to make it a "old fighters suck" thing, not at all, but going that far technique was disgraceful and even alot of old experts believe so, monte cox included which i see the guys at the history section love

[Spartacus Sully]

Originally Posted by Defututus

this is basically what i was saying, except in a nice way....christ

and i've seen you're stupid heavybag video i think you should stop giving advice, all you're crap comes from books, you've never left your mothers basement i bet

also john l sullivan, fitzsimmons come from an era where technique was disgraceful, sullivan sure as hell wouldn't hit anyone with the punch he hit that speedbag during the slo-mo, that was just weirdly angled for the bag, i've seen plenty of fighters do that to the speedbag, doesn't mean they'd punch like that in a fight and im not even trying to make it a "old fighters suck" thing, not at all, but going that far technique was disgraceful and even alot of old experts believe so, monte cox included

ahhhh so your one of those people, figured.

Iggnorance.....i bet its nice, eh?

[bridger1]

i land with my middle knuckle, it just sticks out more, and it is going to hurt someone a lot more. i wouldn't land with my index, that sounds crazy to me, if i was jabbing then i would land with my pinky.

i dont think it really matters, as long you land cleanly which would probably be harder to do if you were trying to land with your index, the thumb may get injured

[Spartacus Sully]

A. jack dempsey does not tell you to land with your middle finger.
B. Jack dempsey tells you to land with your ring finger.
C. Spartacus sully does not tell you to land with your index finger
D. Spartacus sully tells you to land with your middle finger and thats only in bare knuckle fighting, otherwise he agrees with jack dempsey.

[greynotsoold]

Archie Moore referred to the middle knuckle as the aiming knuckle. If you look at the hands of just about any boxer, you'll notice that his middle and index knuckles are very large and prominent, the ring knuckle less so, and the outside knuckle practically non-existent. That is because it has most likely been pushed up to a point between where it was originally, and the wrist. That is what happens when you start landing punches, gloves or not, on that outside knuckle.
If you do it once you will, 100% guaranteed, re-think the idea of landing on the outside knuckles because it freaking hurts.
Most of the time when you land on the outside of the hand, it is because you aren't punching correctly to begin with. Waving the right hand, for example, as opposed to turning and driving it from the shoulder. This is why worhtwhile trainers dissuade boxers from "swinging" their punches.

[mrchallenge]

You are right that bareknuckle boxing had many differences in technique to take into account not having gloves, but punching with the top two knuckles in not one of them. I think you've misinterpreted that Sullivan video. The way that the bareknuckle boxers punched, they turned their hands over the opposite way from what gloved fighters do, with the palm facing 45 degrees upwards, only because they have to punch because it makes it easier to punch with bottom three knuckles and the flat services of the fingers which makes a square surface, which makes it less susceptable to breakage when not wearing gloves.

Don't misinterpret the bareknuckle style of punching for punching with the top two knuckles! Punching with the top two knuckles means that the punch is now off center from the wrist and the rest of the arm, or the "power line" as dempsey calls it. Its pretty much impossible to have power this way. Its also dangerous because the top two knuckles are further apart from each other and are more prone to "splitting". Punching with just the middle knuckle, well that knuckle is on its own and without the other knuckles to back it up, since it sticks out more and it will be the only knuckle that makes contact, hand injuries occur. Punching while aiming with the ring finger means that the ring knuckle is reinforced by the adjacent two knuckles, the force is more spread over a larger surface, easying the strain on your hands. The key is not really to "hit" with the knuckles per se, but to hit with the flat surface that the knuckes and the surface of the fist.

I have great respect for the punching abilities of Sullivan, Fitzsimmons, and all the oldtimers, they can teach some of the modern fighters a thing or two about punching technique, including how to punch with the bottom three knuckles!

And the OP was asking about the "power line" in Dempsey's book, which renders any talk about which knuckles the bareknuckles fighters used irrelevant anyways. You might have your own reasons for punching with the top two knuckles but please don't be giving this advice to others, since it runs counter to any knowlegeable boxing coach! Not to mention that its obvious you lack any practical experience in the matter. I would love for you to tell Freddie Roach and Manny Steward the arguement that you have made in this thread.

[NearHypnos]

Well...it could be interpreted as using that as your "aiming" point so to speak. For instance, when I throw a hook or uppercut, I basically control the contact point through the outside knuckles, otherwise if I "lead" with the first two, I bend my wrist to try to land it (which in essence, would mean suffering a hand injury)... Doing it the other way keeps it sharper...at least in my explanation (which makes sense in my head. <_<) . So yeah...I guess you could say that *I* throw with the outside part of my hand, but land with the middle/inner by keeping my wrist straight after the final "snap". Feels weird trying to explain it in words.

Good example is actually the Winky Wright fight last night (if I recall the punch correctly). The knockdown punch. Look at the way the punch started, but the way the hand ended.

[Vitez]

For street fight I'd use open palm and hit with the heel of my hand which is that part where wrist and thumb meet.....open palm that is.

As for heavy bag I can not get the smacking sound if I hit with middle and index.....so for instance I always hook with thumb up no matter if short or long.

As for sparing well I don't spar much so I guess I should hit with the 3 knuckles and steel turn the punch over....

[Mike Haynes]

Originally Posted by Defututus

wish i had something to punch around here
but after throwing a couple of slo-mo shadowboxing like punches along with imagining how i usually do it, i dont even know anymore
all i know is that i want to land with my middle-knuckle, w/e else knuckle gets in is not my concern, i would never look to land with my index, considering the gap between index and middle it feels like a good way to break somethin if the head moves and i can't get my middle finger in, and the only knuckles i've ever bruised/broken are my middle and ring finger, middle has gotten pretty banged up before, so although my index finger gets in, the others definitely take the grunt of the force

speaking of which, i have a bruised ring finger right now

You beat me to it. Jab, straight right, hook to the body its the middle knuckle I try to land with. Hook to the chin I find myself doing the European (I think) style with my knuckles horizontal instead of vertical (I mix it up though). Sheeid you're gonna land all 4 knuckles anyway.