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#41
Old 04-25-2012, 05:05 PM
Ray Corso
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#42
Old 08-26-2015, 02:12 PM
Rspen46
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Default Not 100% sure!

I can't say for sure, but I've read all I can find on this subject, here are some reasons that could apply or maybe all of them.
1. He was the Mike Tyson of his time, no one, from what I've heard wanted to fight him, except the ATG's, but they soon learned different, and after those wins, that scared the top 10 contenders even more,
2. I've read his camp did attempt to get fights with 3 or 4 guys you listed, but a deal could never be worked out, if those guys had wanted a shot at him, they would have accepted anything for a chance at the title, but they did not.
3. He had a short career and by the time he was champ, he just did not fight that often to get them all in.
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#43
Old 08-26-2015, 03:47 PM
McGoorty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega-Red View Post
Rocky Marciano has a legendary reputation in Boxing. My question for this thread is....what is it based on?

Now most people openly admit that the versions of Charles and Walcott that he fought were far from prime (The Joe Louis fight really doesn't even deserve to be brought up). So it isn't the quality of Rocky's competition that his reputation is based on among the greats, it is that famous record 49-0. If Rocky's 49-0 record is the basis of his greatness then the fighters on that record should be the very best that were available. But by my reckoning that is the furthest thing from the truth. Infact when you look at the highest ranked fighters of the era, and then you look at his record, it's scandalous how many he didn't fight. Many of the ones he DID choose to fight are just as scandalous.

Top fighters Marciano definitely should have fought that he didn't.

1) Nino Valdez


2) Tommy Jackson



3) Bob Baker


4) Dan Bucceroni


Those are just the definites, we could add many other names (like Clarence Henry or even Jimmy Bivins ) that while not as good, are definitely better than some of the guys he DID fight that make up that "legendary" record. Guys like these

Gilbert Cardone (career record 0-4)

Humphrey Jackon (Career Record 4-3)

Johnnie Pretzie (Career Record 10-13)

Jimmy Weeks (Career Record 0-1)

Bob Jefferson (Career Record 4-10)

Gilley Freron (Career Record 3-7)

Tommy DiGiorgio (Career Record 9-16)

Harry Haft (career Record 13-8)

James Patrick Connoly (career record 12-9)

Keene Simmons (Career Record 9-22).

Jimmy Walls (Career record 19-41)

Bill Hardemon (Career Record 1-6)

Harold Mitchell (Career Record 3-16)

Art Henri (career Record 18-29)

Willis Applegate (Career record 12-16)

Eldridge Eatman (career record 22-21)

None of these guys beat anyone of note as far as I know.


Many of these guys he even fought pretty far into his career when there were obviously alternatives.

To top if off, he didn't even stay around for Sonny Liston.

In light of this should this 49-0 record be as revered as it is to some?
He did beat all the best of his era..., Valdez ? he would have been knocked out by Rocky as well, in fact he would have knocked out every heavyweight on earth back then, or do you think he should have fought on and on and on and on till he was years past his best ?
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#44
Old 08-26-2015, 07:30 PM
billeau2
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Marciano had a gift that actually...few fighters seem to have. In boxing everything is upfront. Thats what makes it different than a martial art. You have two hands and the guy in front of you not named "ref" is expecting you to hit him real hard, and likewise...

marciano was DECEPTIVE. he came across as a lucky brawler with a lot of piss, vinegar and a chip on his shoulder but in fact he developed refined skills enabling him to get in on guys who could box. marciano slipped punches extremely well, he had decent feinting ability and was suprisingly good defensively. But he never looked like it. The tapes dont lie though, he could even counter punch well...and lets consider this skill with short arms and against the likes of Arnold Cream and Charles.
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#45
Old 08-27-2015, 02:19 AM
Anthony342
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And don't forget, he wasn't afraid to throw punches at the two hands or arms in front of him in order to get the opponent to drop his guard after taking enough shots to the arms.
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#46
Old 08-28-2015, 07:33 AM
The Old LefHook
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I do not dispute that Tyson fought better comp than Rocky, but KO percentages for the 1rst round, etc. are very misleading. I fully expect Tyson with his speed to get to people before Rocky does. The two did not assault opponents the same way. Of course Tyson would have more 1rst round KO's. Does that mean he hits harder? Not at all. This data can only speak ambiguously on this. This data points to Tyson's accuracy as much as the power of his punch. First round KO's are way too tangled up with the variables of technique, speed and style to give us meaningful results on power. Power has to be isolated first.
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#47
Old 08-28-2015, 10:22 AM
McGoorty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old LefHook View Post
I do not dispute that Tyson fought better comp than Rocky, but KO percentages for the 1rst round, etc. are very misleading. I fully expect Tyson with his speed to get to people before Rocky does. The two did not assault opponents the same way. Of course Tyson would have more 1rst round KO's. Does that mean he hits harder? Not at all. This data can only speak ambiguously on this. This data points to Tyson's accuracy as much as the power of his punch. First round KO's are way too tangled up with the variables of technique, speed and style to give us meaningful results on power. Power has to be isolated first.
tyson lost to better competition never beat better oppostion
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