Does Roy Jones deserve to be considered an elite ATG?

[Merciless1]

He's certainly an ATG & deservedly so.

[res]

Originally Posted by IronDanHamza

I don't consider Roy Jones a Top 20 ATG.

Atleast not in terms of his resume.

Skillwise, absolutely.

He beat two all time greats in their youth, when they were either champs (Toney) or top contenders in the world (Hopkins)

He reigned undefeated for a decade.

I love the classic argument about Hopkins that basically amounts to: Hopkins wasn't in his prime when Roy Jones beat him because Roy Jones beat him. But RIGHT AFTER Roy Jones beat him he was in his prime.

[jabsRstiff]

10 or so years of being considered the lb4lb best fighter in the world makes you an automatic all time great.

No matter what Hopkins has done in his later years compared to what Roy has done......he's still not on Roy's level. Hopkins could never come close to making the claim that's in the first sentence of my post.

[IronDanHamza]

Originally Posted by reedickyaluss

Define savvy.

Roy had every trick, juke, feint, trap that could be used and he executed them flawlessly. Roy didn't just throw fast hands. Roy set traps, roy would feint you twice hit you wth a left hook, and then feint you again. Roy would block your jab and wait for to come in, so he could counter you with his left.

Roy had plenty of savvy, it wasn't all flash.. There was substance and meaning behind his movements.



First of all, how many fighters have TWO All Time Greats on their resume? Not too mention at two different weight classes.

Second, hes got an established list of HOFers on his resume as well Toney, Hopkins, Hill, McCallum, possibly Tarver.



Ohhhh, let me guess.. Toneys weight issues again. Tell me, when in Toneys career did he not have a weight problem? But he went 44-0 and the one time it now mattered is because he happened to be in the ring with Roy... Toney just KNOCKED OUT a fighter only 4 months before he fought Roy... But now Toneys not at his best because, well he lost and had weight issues. Yeah.



Wait a minute... We're gonna talk trash on Roys win over Toney... When they were both prime, both undefeated, Toney was P4p #3 in the world, best fighter in the division coming off a KO win 4 months earlier....

But...

We're gonna bring up Nards revenge win over Roy... When Roy is 41 years old ( and no it doesnt matter Bernard was older, that doesnt somehow mean Roy is still fighting at an elite level just because Bernard is) and coming off a 6 year string of losses and knockouts, and FRESH off a 1 st round tko loss to Danny Green.... And not even mention any of that?




Wait, so we're gonna talk about Toney being not at his best and drained, but we're gonna bring up Nards win over Tarver coming FRESH off a movie filming where he played a heavyweight fighter.



What, brah?

Great post all round.

It genuinely grinds me when newer fans try and discredit the Hopkins and Toney wins.

"Hopkins was green" well guess what? So was Roy.

"Toney had weight problems" when didn't he?

Those two are superb wins. Those 2 alone show how great Roy Jones was in his prime. Especially the James Toney fight. Pre poetry in motion.

I remember the build up to that fight. Big Toney fan at the time. I thought he would not only win but win easy. Boy, was I wrong.

After that fight, everyone knew Roy Jones was the future.

It seems to me, these days, even though it's clear to see on camera, the people who didn't witness Roy Jones in his peak just can't fully appreciate how truly amazing he was.

[jabsRstiff]

It's not just who you fought and beat, but how you beat them. Roy Jones dominated guys no one else ever could, and destroyed guys who previously had been pretty damn durable.

[Ray Corso]

Roy was a super talent and a very exciting fighter who fought at a high level for a long time. As far as an all time top twenty fighter regardless of weight class is a stretch but I think the top twenty ratings are ridiculous! Theres been so many great fighters that to use a number like 20 doesn't make sense unless its the top twenty of each weight class. Ray.

[Scott9945]

Originally Posted by jabsRstiff

It's not just who you fought and beat, but how you beat them. Roy Jones dominated guys no one else ever could, and destroyed guys who previously had been pretty damn durable.

Very well said. In the mid-late 90's you knew you were watching a totally unique talent when Roy fought.

[extant]

Originally Posted by Mintcar923

He had some awesome skills back in the '90's but then again, he fought a lot of stiffs. He had beaten James Toney and outpointed Hopkins earlier in his career. Even though he holds wins over them, do you believe he was really superior? He was an excellent fighter but I don't think he was quite as good as Hopkins...

All due respect bro... But you should STICK yourself for even considering asking that question...

http://youtu.be/Ai6E6RWWV-4

[Hitman Hodgson]

Of course he's an all time great. If your not considered an ATG after the having the career RJJ had then then there's probably no point in being involved. The only problem I have with is that with him is that he could've done with 2 or 3 more quality wins in his prime. He could've been top 20 ATG easily, maybe even higher.

[Big Dunn]

Originally Posted by Hitman Hodgson

Of course he's an all time great. If your not considered an ATG after the having the career RJJ had then then there's probably no point in being involved. The only problem I have with is that with him is that he could've done with 2 or 3 more quality wins in his prime. He could've been top 20 ATG easily, maybe even higher.

The only thing that could possibly make him not an ATG is if you believe he used "performance enhancers" during his career. OTher than that he is an ATG and the TS had to know this was not a very good question.