Prime James Toney in today's MW SMW? dose he beat martinez ward? - Page 5

wmute

1) Bute and Toney had the same reach, so cut the crap already.

2) It is not out of this world that Toney shows up lazy and fat at 160 (did it before), and Martinez keeps moving piling up points and gets the D. Now... "not out of this world" is different than "I would bet on it"

3) I really like Ward, but I need to see a few more years of him before thinking he can beat Toney.

project xxx1

Toney whoops both of them without a problem

prime Toney was a serious beast

turbotime

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoccabile

A highlght reel doesn't tell the entire story sir, sorry. Styles make fights.

Toney is too lazy on his feet. IS martinez the better fighter? HELL ****ING NO! NOT EVEN CLOSE! But Toney vs a GOOD, FAST, ELUSIVE LATERAL MOVER like martinez is just hell. He's too lazy, it's that simple. Dude just falls asleep in the ring.

Exactly. Against southpaws his style was real simple too. Lean to the right and look for a big right hand counter. He did it against every southpaw. He leans to the right like that against Bute and he eats uppercuts all night.

New England

he'd knock martinez out

barker, dzinziruk, and macklin gave him issues

williams gave him fits in the first fight

toney might start a bit slow but eventually he'd start rolling and slipping martinez shots and landing hard punches

wmute

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbotime

Exactly. Against southpaws his style was real simple too. Lean to the right and look for a big right hand counter. He did it against every southpaw. He leans to the right like that against Bute and he eats uppercuts all night.

uppercuts = too close to be safe = Bute gets tattooed with those right hands all night. (Oh and Toney lands plenty of left hooks and put people -lefties included- on their asses with them).

Only way Bute sees the final bell, is if it is a fat toney showing up.

Zerwas1

Toney is more skilled and stronger than Martinez.
Stylistically Martinez poses a lot of problems for him.
A lot of side to side movement and also a lot of in and out movement.
Toney always had problems against with that kind of fighters, cuz of his lazy footwork and his extreme philly shell.
Also Martinez has great stamina and if Toney has weight problems he's in for a long night.

NearHypnos

Toney was a better fighter than Martinez, Ward, Bute. Ward possibly better than Martinez but Martinez infinitely more conditioned than Toney. Martinez moves naturally away from Toney's right hand and lets not forget Bute AND Martinez don't disregard the body. Sure, he'd eventually land that overhand right, but we have nOthing to base him KOing Martinez on. Martinez would just outwork him, simple as that. One overhand to about 4 or 5 of Martinez's shots seems about fair. Ward COULD just try to smother Toney and keep him from shooting off the counter, but Ward has a tendency to jump straight in and Toney's timing was unreal. Still, Ward probably smart enough to smother him from an angle.

Realistically, Martinez can outwork him into a decision, and Ward could possibly grind out a hug fest. I was a big Toney fan and still love him and his hilarious interviews, but he never realized his full potential imo. With the exception of Bute, its not out the question the other 2 main players outwork him. If you were smart enough to get out of his "bubble" he was too slow to pursue anyone...His hands were quick, as was his upper body movement, but he wouldn't move his feet. Turtle to the right with the shoulder, fire off the overhand. Worked on lesser fighters (and even some good ones) and although he's "smarter" than Sergio and Ward, that doesn't mean the latter two aren't smart or crafty themselves.

There's this misconception that because Martinez is beating euro guys that he's trash but I feel the fighters he's beating are grossly under rated because of their nationality. Macklin and Dzinziruk in particular are solid wins. Spectacular? No. But better than say...a Kirkland win...Maybe

Toney basically similar to judah. Avoid the lean and counter from the power hand? Profit.

Ward and Sergio shouldn't be discredited for their wins, they're doing what they have to do and doing it well...What iF they fought Toney and beat him? Let me guess, Toney was fat and bloated too? :P When a fighter wins against anyone who isn't old, it has nothing to do with weight barring a MASSIVE size advantage..think 20+ pounds.if you weren't in shape it means they were better prepared, better fighter outside the ring too. This is like saying "If he woulda landed the right hand at full power..he'd have KOd him".

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

Toney was a myth that came from a small ammount of truth.

Silencers

I think Toney would've beaten the top middleweights out there today if he came in focused and fit. Martinez might have given him some trouble with his turning.

I think Ward's technnique and style would've given him trouble at 168. Apart from that though, when Toney was at his best he could've beaten them all.

View Poll Results: Prime James Toney vs Today's MW SMW
He beat Ward Martinez and everyone else	25	75.76%
He loses to one or both	8	24.24%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

wmute Undisputed Champion Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 8,020 Rep Power: 30 Points: 180,022.96 Bank: 3,041,375,183.03 Total Points: 3,041,555,205.99 Donate	1) Bute and Toney had the same reach, so cut the crap already. 2) It is not out of this world that Toney shows up lazy and fat at 160 (did it before), and Martinez keeps moving piling up points and gets the D. Now... "not out of this world" is different than "I would bet on it" 3) I really like Ward, but I need to see a few more years of him before thinking he can beat Toney.

project xxx1 Undisputed Champion Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 15,447 Rep Power: 41 Points: 1,679,263.46 Bank: 3,290,169,162,377.18 Total Points: 3,290,170,841,640.64 Donate	Toney whoops both of them without a problem prime Toney was a serious beast

New England Old England Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Boston. Posts: 15,671 Rep Power: 59 Points: 11,671,535,352.69 Bank: 2,052,272,267,796.76 Total Points: 2,063,943,803,149.45 Donate	he'd knock martinez out barker, dzinziruk, and macklin gave him issues williams gave him fits in the first fight toney might start a bit slow but eventually he'd start rolling and slipping martinez shots and landing hard punches

Zerwas1 Undisputed Champion Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nuremberg Age: 27 Posts: 2,893 Rep Power: 15 Points: 109.31 Bank: 238,446,987,951.15 Total Points: 238,446,988,060.46 Donate	Toney is more skilled and stronger than Martinez. Stylistically Martinez poses a lot of problems for him. A lot of side to side movement and also a lot of in and out movement. Toney always had problems against with that kind of fighters, cuz of his lazy footwork and his extreme philly shell. Also Martinez has great stamina and if Toney has weight problems he's in for a long night.

Silencers Undisputed Champion Join Date: May 2006 Age: 31 Posts: 21,989 Rep Power: 58 Points: 4,263,687.53 Bank: 530,686,428,031.41 Total Points: 530,690,691,718.95 Donate	I think Toney would've beaten the top middleweights out there today if he came in focused and fit. Martinez might have given him some trouble with his turning. I think Ward's technnique and style would've given him trouble at 168. Apart from that though, when Toney was at his best he could've beaten them all.