Why didn't Pacquiao follow Roach's instructions inbetween rounds??

[Mikhnienko]

Originally Posted by JAB5239

I haven't got a chance to see the fight yet because of other commitments, but you should really start more threads Lorily. You're one of the more astute fans on this forum.

+1
Great thread Lorily. Haven't been on here for a while so i missed the message you left but this thread certianly deserved a bump. It's a shame that more serious and analytical threads like this don't occupy NSB more.

I only watched the fight live, haven't re-watched it yet, so perhaps i'll comment in more detail later on but i agree with your post. Pac's lack of adjustments during the fight was infuriating me tbh and what you were saying about not stepping to his right is true. He was basically slowly following Juan around the ring the whole fight and it left me scratching my head too.

[Froghead99]

Pacquiao got old. Look at his best fights and how much he used to move. His feet got slower. His work rate has also been decreasing since the marg fight.

And JMM? Guys 38 and faster and stronger than ever, biologically it's impossible. He never even tired. Hate to accuse someone of ped use, but come on. 38 years old?

[Illdil]

Originally Posted by Lorily

Freddie told Manny several times throughout the fight that he needed to move to his right, but Pac continuously kept moving to his left. He wasn't really circling, persay - it was more like he was "drifting" left then it was circling (IMO). Most of the time when Manny threw his punches he was also dipping to his left, which played into Marquez's right hand power shots. The few times when Pac actually did go to his right, and when he threw combos and dodged out to the right (which was rare), he would make JMM miss most of the time. And also, when Pac did go to his right - with the way JMM's stance is and with the feet placement between a southpaw and conventional fighter, it made it harder for JMM to move at that angle. I noticed it so early in the fight that it was frustrating the hell out of me. I can't for the life of me figure out why Manny didn't listen to Freddies advice on that. It seemed like Manny hardly used any angles against Juan at all, which is bizarre IMO. With JMM being such a supreme counter puncher, he was able to come back and catch Pac with 2 or 3 good counter punches almost every time Manny would throw anything.

Do you think it could have made any significant difference in the fight if Pac would have listened to Roach's instruction regarding that?

In addition: After just watching the replay of the fight on HBO tonight (Side note: they showed a few things from the 24/7 angle like they did in FMJ/Ortiz) - a few things of interest that I hadn't seen during the PPV....

After they showed the scores and announced Pac was the winner, the 24/7 camera panned to Alex Ariza - who clearly mouthed "Whew!" and made a motion of wiping sweat off of his eyebrow (and then he laughed). I thought that was kindof telling of him to do that.

After they showed Pacquiao was the winner, the camera went directly to Marquez's corner and Bob Arum was in there talking to Juan. I don't think I've ever seen Bob go to Pacs opponent before going to Pac first. Odd for Bob? It looked like he was saying something serious (Probably something like "Juan, think of all the money we could make with a 4th fight.")

And perhaps the funniest thing (IMO), was when Max was interviewing an all-but(t) naked JMM in the dressing room, after the fight. Max would ask Juan a question, look down at that sombrero, and then embarassingly look away. At one time, even chuckling before asking the next question. Max looked hella uncomfortable, especially since Juan had his legs stretched out and laid back, looking like he litterally just got ****ed LOL.

Awsome post everything u said was true..idk what makes him circle to hes left most of time he has to learn how to take away opponents strength's away i think if he did do that and kept to hes right he would have dropped or even Possibly Ko'd JMM but idk like what i always say when u r in the ring fighting at that moment u forget about everything ..but yeah idk whether they'll have a 4th fight but i dont think so..i think JMM had enough..i mean u have to give credit for this trilogy they had cuz all the fights were and very very competitive but i say No for a 4th... but i don think JMM should fight at 140 now though..idk Whehther pAC v Jr will ever fight but i do Know Jr skill beyond JMM and can do whatever JMM can do but way better so idk styles make fights so time will tell how would win that fight but im picking Jr just cuz of that Defence,speed,Angles & counters r second to none and he has above average power too so he gona make it very very tough for pAC but still could b interesting cuz Jr cant take the same shot that pAC can take or he has never faced this much explosiveness and speed and raw power and footwork of pAC so yeah..

[turbotime]

The reason this wasn't the Cotto fight is because Marquez is crazy durable. Sure he gets wobbled from time to time but he doesn't flee once a bit of adversity comes his way, and Cotto usually does.

[turbotime]

Originally Posted by Froghead99

Pacquiao got old. Look at his best fights and how much he used to move. His feet got slower. His work rate has also been decreasing since the marg fight.

And JMM? Guys 38 and faster and stronger than ever, biologically it's impossible. He never even tired. Hate to accuse someone of ped use, but come on. 38 years old?

Pacquiao must be off the roids now. Probably why he is willing to take tests now, and wasn't back in 2009.

[MARKBNLV]

Originally Posted by Lorily

Freddie told Manny several times throughout the fight that he needed to move to his right, but Pac continuously kept moving to his left. He wasn't really circling, persay - it was more like he was "drifting" left then it was circling (IMO). Most of the time when Manny threw his punches he was also dipping to his left, which played into Marquez's right hand power shots. The few times when Pac actually did go to his right, and when he threw combos and dodged out to the right (which was rare), he would make JMM miss most of the time. And also, when Pac did go to his right - with the way JMM's stance is and with the feet placement between a southpaw and conventional fighter, it made it harder for JMM to move at that angle. I noticed it so early in the fight that it was frustrating the hell out of me. I can't for the life of me figure out why Manny didn't listen to Freddies advice on that. It seemed like Manny hardly used any angles against Juan at all, which is bizarre IMO. With JMM being such a supreme counter puncher, he was able to come back and catch Pac with 2 or 3 good counter punches almost every time Manny would throw anything.

Do you think it could have made any significant difference in the fight if Pac would have listened to Roach's instruction regarding that?

In addition: After just watching the replay of the fight on HBO tonight (Side note: they showed a few things from the 24/7 angle like they did in FMJ/Ortiz) - a few things of interest that I hadn't seen during the PPV....

After they showed the scores and announced Pac was the winner, the 24/7 camera panned to Alex Ariza - who clearly mouthed "Whew!" and made a motion of wiping sweat off of his eyebrow (and then he laughed). I thought that was kindof telling of him to do that.

After they showed Pacquiao was the winner, the camera went directly to Marquez's corner and Bob Arum was in there talking to Juan. I don't think I've ever seen Bob go to Pacs opponent before going to Pac first. Odd for Bob? It looked like he was saying something serious (Probably something like "Juan, think of all the money we could make with a 4th fight.")

And perhaps the funniest thing (IMO), was when Max was interviewing an all-but(t) naked JMM in the dressing room, after the fight. Max would ask Juan a question, look down at that sombrero, and then embarassingly look away. At one time, even chuckling before asking the next question. Max looked hella uncomfortable, especially since Juan had his legs stretched out and laid back, looking like he litterally just got ****ed LOL.

Like i said to my friend while watching the fight,Marquez is beating him with his feet anytime Pac would change postion Marquez would throw him off balance by throwing a jab or a hook and regain his dominate footwork.
Not to mention they have to be like an open book to each other you cant really change to much after 24 rds of war 36-48 will probably look a lot similar to rds 1-36.