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#1
Old 11-08-2011, 04:15 PM
Horvo
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Default Can JMM be at a weight disadvantage even if he weighs more than Pac on fight night?

In their last fight at 130 Pac came in at 145 and JMM at 141. Now Pac has been coming in at 148 for all of his fights since DlH. JMM came in at 145 for Katsidis.

I think it's quite possible that JMM comes in weighing more than Pac at 148. If he weighs more than Pac is he still at a weight disadvantage? What if he weighs the same?

So even if their fight night weights are closer than the 4 pound difference in their last fight, JMM is at a bigger disadvantage. Is the argument that he is better at draining for the weigh-in than Pac and that's why he is disadvantaged now?

I think the big factor is age. A 38 year old JMM even at a 135 weight limit is less dangerous than a 34 year old JMM would have been at a 144 limit.
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#2
Old 11-08-2011, 04:18 PM
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Yes he can be disadvantaged , because the more bulk above his best weight of 135 that JMM carries the slower he will be , having more power but being slower is not going to give a counter puncher an advantage it will give him a handicap .
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#3
Old 11-08-2011, 11:59 PM
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Yes he can be disadvantaged , because the more bulk above his best weight of 135 that JMM carries the slower he will be , having more power but being slower is not going to give a counter puncher an advantage it will give him a handicap .
How can 135 be his best weight if he came in at 141 over three years ago and 145 against Katsidis? 135 is his weight class because that's the lowest weight he can effectively drain to and face the smallest fighters. He doesn't fight at 135. Pac's best weight is 148. PBF's is 150. That's their fighting weight not their best drained weight. JMM should be able to be more effective without having to drain. If there were same day weigh-ins JMM would not fight at 135.
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#4
Old 11-09-2011, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Horvo View Post
How can 135 be his best weight if he came in at 141 over three years ago and 145 against Katsidis? 135 is his weight class because that's the lowest weight he can effectively drain to and face the smallest fighters. He doesn't fight at 135. Pac's best weight is 148. PBF's is 150. That's their fighting weight not their best drained weight. JMM should be able to be more effective without having to drain. If there were same day weigh-ins JMM would not fight at 135.


Huh?

What he came in at on fight night is pointless unless there were same day weigh ins.
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#5
Old 11-09-2011, 12:44 AM
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Him weighing in more is a bigger disadvantage to him IMO.... he might be heavier but that's not good for him
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#6
Old 11-09-2011, 12:49 AM
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Having to bulk up to welterweight already has him at a disadvantage.


The weight class+age IS the disadvantage. It's the case with most of Pacquiao's recent fights.

Cotto at 145.

Pac fans: It's not a big deal, Cotto weighed in at 146 against Clottey.

So why the catchweight?


Same with Marquez.

Pacfans: "They will both weigh around the same on fight night anyway".

So why the 145-pound catchweight, why not 140 if you're both coming in the same weight on fight night anyway?


Team Pacquiao/Roach/Arum, understand the importance of catchweights for the PED King. How are you on PED's already, and you need all of these catchweights and handicap matches? Aren't the undetectable PED's good enough?
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#7
Old 11-09-2011, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by hougigo View Post
Him weighing in more is a bigger disadvantage to him IMO.... he might be heavier but that's not good for him
Quote:
Originally Posted by EngorgedW/Blood View Post
Having to bulk up to welterweight already has him at a disadvantage.


The weight class+age IS the disadvantage. It's the case with most of Pacquiao's recent fights.

Cotto at 145.

Pac fans: It's not a big deal, Cotto weighed in at 146 against Clottey.

So why the catchweight?


Same with Marquez.

Pacfans: "They will both weigh around the same on fight night anyway".

So why the 145-pound catchweight, why not 140 if you're both coming in the same weight on fight night anyway?


Team Pacquiao/Roach/Arum, understand the importance of catchweights for the PED King. How are you on PED's already, and you need al of these catchweights and handicap matches? Aren't the undetectable PED's good enough?

It's awesome cuz he's always dictating terms. And his opponents cave into his demands.

Why the hell not?

Throughout history in boxing, fighters and promoters have always exploited what they could for maximum benefit.

Good for them if they can get away with it.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jreckoning View Post
It's awesome cuz he's always dictating terms. And his opponents cave into his demands.

Why the hell not?

Throughout history in boxing, fighters and promoters have always exploited what they could for maximum benefit.

Good for them if they can get away with it.
Well... people act like they're putting a gun up to their head to say yes.... nobody is making them say yes.
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#9
Old 11-09-2011, 01:03 AM
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How can 135 be his best weight if he came in at 141 over three years ago and 145 against Katsidis? 135 is his weight class because that's the lowest weight he can effectively drain to and face the smallest fighters. He doesn't fight at 135. Pac's best weight is 148. PBF's is 150. That's their fighting weight not their best drained weight. JMM should be able to be more effective without having to drain. If there were same day weigh-ins JMM would not fight at 135.
Because you train at a different weight throughout camp than you do for 144 , its changes the way your muscle density is distributed , at the higher weight his muscle is carrying more water that the same muscle carrys at his peak weight , peak weight is where all things are in harmony , your speed and strength are in balance for your own system , that is your perfect weight .

Then if you go above or below it will effect either strength or speed , how much you can get away with then depends on your style and class and who your opponent is , most of the really top guys try to fight at that peak weight , but many that are chasing the big fights will say hey I can make that weight I want the big pay ,,,,, you get the picture .

Not many trainers really know weight , I mean really know it , I think Freddie is the first to really manipulate fights at the scales on a regular basis , but then he has the fighter with a big enough profile to force it , its Roaches master stroke as a trainer , he made Manny what he is and it not because of Roach being a training god .
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