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#51
Old 09-22-2011, 05:09 PM
wmute
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Originally Posted by McGoorty View Post
Includes any boxer period..... CW's are just as legitimate,... it all depends on class and record.
exactly my point
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#52
Old 09-22-2011, 07:12 PM
jabsRstiff
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Originally Posted by wmute View Post
I think so. I take it literally.

To me it means... Would a pound of willie pep beat a pound of Jack Dempsey? Let's talk about it!


On top of that, I mean... we do include CW in p4p lists right? well people that are 200 in the era of weigh in the day before were definitely above 175 in the era of same day weigh in.
Willie Pep is faster/quicker than Jack Dempsey because he is smaller, just like Dempsey hits harder and is physically stronger than Pep because he is larger.
Remember to slow down Pep if you're gonna weaken Dempsey.
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#53
Old 09-23-2011, 06:13 AM
Greatest1942
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Originally Posted by poet682006 View Post
On Benny Leonard..... knowledgeable boxing people considered him the finest p4p fighter they'd ever seen until Robinson came along.

Poet
In todays P4P lists of all knowledable historians and people in general , do Benny Leonard rank over harry Greb...I bet Greb is ranked much higher than Leonard today in most lists.

No harm in rating Leonard over Greb, but for me personally , Greb's body of work in 20's overshadows of that of Leonard. And I am strictly going by resume.
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#54
Old 09-23-2011, 10:46 AM
McGoorty
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Originally Posted by Greatest1942 View Post
In todays P4P lists of all knowledable historians and people in general , do Benny Leonard rank over harry Greb...I bet Greb is ranked much higher than Leonard today in most lists.

No harm in rating Leonard over Greb, but for me personally , Greb's body of work in 20's overshadows of that of Leonard. And I am strictly going by resume.
Yes, but to a point.... their contemporaries, well most of them held Leonard higher than Greb, remember they had seen both men fight many times, that is an insight that we can never have.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I myself rate Leonard higher, as I rate Leonard as #1 LW.... and I'm not sure how Greb should be rated at Middleweight. I've read some boxing articles from the late 20's (thanks to you), where some writers are lamenting the lack of good MW's in the 20's, and where they state that the MW's like Darcy, Ketchel, Fitzsimmons, Gibbons, McGoorty, and Ryan, were far better than the 20's MW's., This writer mentioned Darcy in particular, and he said that Darcy would have won easily against Walker. One very strange thing tough....... this writer never even mentions Harry Greb,... not one...... I find that very strange,,,, why ??? what is going on in the 20's ?????
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#55
Old 09-25-2011, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by McGoorty View Post
Yes, but to a point.... their contemporaries, well most of them held Leonard higher than Greb, remember they had seen both men fight many times, that is an insight that we can never have.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I myself rate Leonard higher, as I rate Leonard as #1 LW.... and I'm not sure how Greb should be rated at Middleweight. I've read some boxing articles from the late 20's (thanks to you), where some writers are lamenting the lack of good MW's in the 20's, and where they state that the MW's like Darcy, Ketchel, Fitzsimmons, Gibbons, McGoorty, and Ryan, were far better than the 20's MW's., This writer mentioned Darcy in particular, and he said that Darcy would have won easily against Walker. One very strange thing tough....... this writer never even mentions Harry Greb,... not one...... I find that very strange,,,, why ??? what is going on in the 20's ?????
Greb was rated as the best middle weight during that time and also was an active heavyweight contender whose light heavy weight resume is on par with the best light heavy weights of all time. Now as for as P4P many still rank Leonard over Greb...its not unjust...those who saw benny must have been blown away by his pure skills more than Greb's who was more of a pressure fighter, not the kind which will please many purists...which might explain why many ranked benny higher.

But his P4P resume overshadows Leonard's by some margin IMO.


Well I rank Greb high in middle weights...I doubt many middle weights of the past were better than Walker and Greb beat him..I doubt if many of them would have beaten Tunney, Greb beat him, and by newspaper accounts it doesnt look he did it once only.Greb beat a Gibbons, who although past prime was still good...he beat Tommy Gibbons handily who was a good customer.Eddie McGoorty, Frank Mantell, Jeff Smith and Bryan Downey were not bad weren't they? Also Greb beat Mike O***8217;Dowd, George Chip, Al McCoy and atleast won one bout from Tiger Flowers in his last fight, which was by all accounts a robbery.

My point simply is did Ketchel beat Fitz or vice versa? I doubt many of the past had multiple ATG middle weight names in their resumes...or simply more than Greb by a substantial margin...

Monzoon ranks high at middle weight ( I have him in top 3) , do you think he has some one of Walker's calibre in his resume? Greb was great...and deserves a high middle weight ranking.

Last edited by Greatest1942; 09-25-2011 at 04:53 PM.
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#56
Old 09-25-2011, 05:31 PM
McGoorty
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Originally Posted by jabsRstiff View Post
Willie Pep is faster/quicker than Jack Dempsey because he is smaller, just like Dempsey hits harder and is physically stronger than Pep because he is larger.
Remember to slow down Pep if you're gonna weaken Dempsey.
We're not talking just P4P here because when someone asked Willie what he thought of Ray Robinson being called the Pound for Pound..... Pep's response was, "Then I'm the greatest fighter OUNCE for OUNCE.
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#57
Old 09-26-2011, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by McGoorty View Post
Maybe.......!850's.to 1870's.... JEM MACE.......... 1880's... Sullivan or Dempsey,,,,, ---------------!890's,.... Fitzsimmons or Dixon......----------!900's... Johnson or Jeffries .........1910's.... Darcy or Darcy... ---------------- 1920's.... Greb or Leonard.......... ------------1930's..... Armstrong or Louis....... -1940's... Robinson or Robinson or Pep........ -----------1950's... Moore or Basilio....-----------------------1960's.... CLAY or ALI.......------------1970's..... Roberto or Duran ................ 1980's,,... Ray Leonard......... and so on.
That's my boy there. The only addition I feel has to be mentioned is Tommy Sayer. 110 to 155 pounds of solid, proper, **** you up. 12-1-3 ain't bad for LPRR...Jem was bad as **** I don't mean to contend his bad assedness but Tommy was always the little man
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