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#1
Old 08-09-2011, 05:50 AM
BattlingNelson
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Default Gunboat Smith: "There's something radically wrong in todays boxing."

I thought I'd post this gem from "In this Corner". A statemement from old-timer Gunboat Smith that is still relevant today even if said in 1970:

Quote:
We used to train with smaller gloves than these here fellows fight with today. We used to fight with 4 ounzers. I don't see how you can knock anybody out with an 8 ounze glove.

Everybody goes into a fight, they get cut up with an 8- or 10 ounze glove. I don't get it at all. There's something radically wrong someplace.

In those days you get hit, you get hurt, you learn fast.

We used to train with 6 ounze gloves, and they fight with 8 ounze gloves today. That's what I can't get through my head.

And we used to have insulation tape.

I used to have a pad I'd put right on top there, then I'd put the insulation tape around there to hold it in place. They did the same.

In those days you could do it.
Thoughts?
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#2
Old 08-09-2011, 05:59 AM
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I get the feeling it's the equivalent of your average old person telling you about when "those were the days."
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#3
Old 08-09-2011, 10:04 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BattlingNelson View Post
I thought I'd post this gem from "In this Corner". A statemement from old-timer Gunboat Smith that is still relevant today even if said in 1970:



Thoughts?
I have this in a book as well, I think he's not far from the truth and it makes sense
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#4
Old 08-09-2011, 10:46 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BattlingNelson View Post
I thought I'd post this gem from "In this Corner". A statemement from old-timer Gunboat Smith that is still relevant today even if said in 1970:



Thoughts?

It baffles me that anyone may not agree with this in an overall sense. There will be exceptions in every era, but overall fighters have declined in toughness and ability.
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#5
Old 08-09-2011, 10:50 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BattlingNelson View Post
I thought I'd post this gem from "In this Corner". A statemement from old-timer Gunboat Smith that is still relevant today even if said in 1970:



Thoughts?



relevant to the degree that it's truthful


larger gloves allow for longer fights and less damage to the hands and face




if julian jackson hit opponents with a four once glove on he'd kill somebody


few set their feet and threw technical precise punches in gunboat's day (if we have the same gunboat smith, the 1910's and on) either. the few who did were pioneers

today it's taught in a gym.


lets ask ourselves, then, gunboat

what would happen if a modern fighter "sparred" with six ounce gloves over the course of a ten week training camp with 3-6 weeks of sparring

A: fighters get cut literally during every training camp
b: they burn out in the gym before their 25th birthdays
c: julian jackson's starts offing sparring partners (if he dies, he dies)
d: sparring sessions become the playful, pecking, and less realistic "sparring sessions" you see from gunboat's time period (i cant tell you how many times i've defended greb on the internet because people cant get over the two minute clip of him "sparring" and looking like an idiot)


go to the wild card, gunboat
or garcias gym in oxnard

those "sparring sessions" among the top pros in those gyms are basically fights where nobody pushes an advantage when somebody is hurt to try and finish
they are rough as ****

if they went without head gear and 6 oz gloves (laugh. anybody who boxed can back me up on this one) they would carry them out of those gym sessions.
they'd look like they came out of meat grinders. they wouldn't make it to the fight.

they would be FORCEd to tone their sparring down, not allowing them to work on the stuff they'd want to work on in the capacity they could with 16 oz gloves and a winning faceguard


did he fall asleep after 1925? ^^


sugar ray robinson could take a man's head off with either hand (and i believe he was using 6 oz gloves)
so could hearns, right around the time of the writing of the interview, and he was i believe in 8 oz gloves at the time

and now, if he's watching from fistic heaven, he can see alfredo angulo, in his ten oz glory at 154 lbs sending fighters into retirement with combinations


the game has changed, obviously
gunboat seems a bit sour to me

especially in 1970
there were some great great fighters knocking guys out in the decades preceding that
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#6
Old 08-09-2011, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New England View Post
relevant to the degree that it's truthful


larger gloves allow for longer fights and less damage to the hands and face




if julian jackson hit opponents with a four once glove on he'd kill somebody


few set their feet and threw technical precise punches in gunboat's day (if we have the same gunboat smith, the 1910's and on) either. the few who did were pioneers

today it's taught in a gym.


lets ask ourselves, then, gunboat

what would happen if a modern fighter "sparred" with six ounce gloves over the course of a ten week training camp with 3-6 weeks of sparring

A: fighters get cut literally during every training camp
b: they burn out in the gym before their 25th birthdays
c: julian jackson's starts offing sparring partners (if he dies, he dies)
d: sparring sessions become the playful, pecking, and less realistic "sparring sessions" you see from gunboat's time period (i cant tell you how many times i've defended greb on the internet because people cant get over the two minute clip of him "sparring" and looking like an idiot)


go to the wild card, gunboat
or garcias gym in oxnard

those "sparring sessions" among the top pros in those gyms are basically fights where nobody pushes an advantage when somebody is hurt to try and finish
they are rough as ****

if they went without head gear and 6 oz gloves (laugh. anybody who boxed can back me up on this one) they would carry them out of those gym sessions.
they'd look like they came out of meat grinders. they wouldn't make it to the fight.

they would be FORCEd to tone their sparring down, not allowing them to work on the stuff they'd want to work on in the capacity they could with 16 oz gloves and a winning faceguard


did he fall asleep after 1925? ^^


sugar ray robinson could take a man's head off with either hand (and i believe he was using 6 oz gloves)
so could hearns, right around the time of the writing of the interview, and he was i believe in 8 oz gloves at the time

and now, if he's watching from fistic heaven, he can see alfredo angulo, in his ten oz glory at 154 lbs sending fighters into retirement with combinations


the game has changed, obviously
gunboat seems a bit sour to me

especially in 1970
there were some great great fighters knocking guys out in the decades preceding that
I feel like you always have exactly the right take on the situation.

I could not disagree with Gunboat more here. A lot of fighters are more precise than they were when they were fighting with what were essentially leather sheathes for their hands because they can actually practice for hours in a gym without killing themselves.

And what would happen if, say, Foreman-Frazier I had been with MMA gloves? Either Foreman's fist would have exploded, or something in Frazier's brain. Career ender or life ender. Neither one of those scenarios sounds good just so Gunboat Smith can be happy about how big today's fighter's dicks are.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:23 PM
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Also, you can't score a knockout with 8 oz gloves? Oooooooooh! Now I understand why there's never any knockouts any more.
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#8
Old 08-09-2011, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New England View Post
relevant to the degree that it's truthful


larger gloves allow for longer fights and less damage to the hands and face




if julian jackson hit opponents with a four once glove on he'd kill somebody


few set their feet and threw technical precise punches in gunboat's day (if we have the same gunboat smith, the 1910's and on) either. the few who did were pioneers

today it's taught in a gym.


lets ask ourselves, then, gunboat

what would happen if a modern fighter "sparred" with six ounce gloves over the course of a ten week training camp with 3-6 weeks of sparring

A: fighters get cut literally during every training camp
b: they burn out in the gym before their 25th birthdays
c: julian jackson's starts offing sparring partners (if he dies, he dies)
d: sparring sessions become the playful, pecking, and less realistic "sparring sessions" you see from gunboat's time period (i cant tell you how many times i've defended greb on the internet because people cant get over the two minute clip of him "sparring" and looking like an idiot)


go to the wild card, gunboat
or garcias gym in oxnard

those "sparring sessions" among the top pros in those gyms are basically fights where nobody pushes an advantage when somebody is hurt to try and finish
they are rough as ****

if they went without head gear and 6 oz gloves (laugh. anybody who boxed can back me up on this one) they would carry them out of those gym sessions.
they'd look like they came out of meat grinders. they wouldn't make it to the fight.

they would be FORCEd to tone their sparring down, not allowing them to work on the stuff they'd want to work on in the capacity they could with 16 oz gloves and a winning faceguard


did he fall asleep after 1925? ^^


sugar ray robinson could take a man's head off with either hand (and i believe he was using 6 oz gloves)
so could hearns, right around the time of the writing of the interview, and he was i believe in 8 oz gloves at the time

and now, if he's watching from fistic heaven, he can see alfredo angulo, in his ten oz glory at 154 lbs sending fighters into retirement with combinations


the game has changed, obviously
gunboat seems a bit sour to me

especially in 1970
there were some great great fighters knocking guys out in the decades preceding that
The thing that Gunboat was talking about ( I have the book ) was brain Damage, Smith was asked why the modern fighters ( 1960's in his case ) suffered a lot from brain damage. Gunboat thought that a modern fighter took MORE punches overall because of the extra padding and head-gear, and because of that he thought it may be the answer. In other words, he said you'd be DEAD if you took as many punches as a 6 oz. gloves. So Gunboat is sort of on your side. one things for sure,.... Smith could bang hard.
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#9
Old 08-09-2011, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigStereotype View Post
I feel like you always have exactly the right take on the situation.

I could not disagree with Gunboat more here. A lot of fighters are more precise than they were when they were fighting with what were essentially leather sheathes for their hands because they can actually practice for hours in a gym without killing themselves.

And what would happen if, say, Foreman-Frazier I had been with MMA gloves? Either Foreman's fist would have exploded, or something in Frazier's brain. Career ender or life ender. Neither one of those scenarios sounds good just so Gunboat Smith can be happy about how big today's fighter's dicks are.
You must spread some reputation around
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#10
Old 08-09-2011, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New England View Post
relevant to the degree that it's truthful


larger gloves allow for longer fights and less damage to the hands and face




if julian jackson hit opponents with a four once glove on he'd kill somebody


few set their feet and threw technical precise punches in gunboat's day (if we have the same gunboat smith, the 1910's and on) either. the few who did were pioneers

today it's taught in a gym.


lets ask ourselves, then, gunboat

what would happen if a modern fighter "sparred" with six ounce gloves over the course of a ten week training camp with 3-6 weeks of sparring

A: fighters get cut literally during every training camp
b: they burn out in the gym before their 25th birthdays
c: julian jackson's starts offing sparring partners (if he dies, he dies)
d: sparring sessions become the playful, pecking, and less realistic "sparring sessions" you see from gunboat's time period (i cant tell you how many times i've defended greb on the internet because people cant get over the two minute clip of him "sparring" and looking like an idiot)


go to the wild card, gunboat
or garcias gym in oxnard

those "sparring sessions" among the top pros in those gyms are basically fights where nobody pushes an advantage when somebody is hurt to try and finish
they are rough as ****

if they went without head gear and 6 oz gloves (laugh. anybody who boxed can back me up on this one) they would carry them out of those gym sessions.
they'd look like they came out of meat grinders. they wouldn't make it to the fight.

they would be FORCEd to tone their sparring down, not allowing them to work on the stuff they'd want to work on in the capacity they could with 16 oz gloves and a winning faceguard


did he fall asleep after 1925? ^^


sugar ray robinson could take a man's head off with either hand (and i believe he was using 6 oz gloves)
so could hearns, right around the time of the writing of the interview, and he was i believe in 8 oz gloves at the time

and now, if he's watching from fistic heaven, he can see alfredo angulo, in his ten oz glory at 154 lbs sending fighters into retirement with combinations


the game has changed, obviously
gunboat seems a bit sour to me

especially in 1970
there were some great great fighters knocking guys out in the decades preceding that
Again a good effort my man!

Maybe the gunner hadnt found out that the game had changed from frequent fighting and less training to fewer fights and longer training camps.

The point you make about Jackson might not be invalid, but you should note that the number of fatalities where probably greater at the turn of the century. I havent seen numbers I admit, but I'd be very surprised if it wasn't.

I do like his notion that you learn better when the risk is greater (smaller gloves) though. So maybe they learned defense a little better than you do when you train with headgear and 12 ounze gloves? Could be.


...............


Another point from his quote worth noting relative to todays game, is the bit about the loaded gloves. Doesn't anybody think Margarito? Not so much the tape, but the pad. Margarito's gloves was loaded with hardened gauze so there's a parallel.
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