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#21
Old 07-18-2011, 07:57 PM
VanesBoxing
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what will the odds be on this fight??? does Ortiz really even have a chance?

i remember when Vanes would punish him at WildCard... he may be wayyy over his head goin against the P4P #1
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#22
Old 07-18-2011, 08:02 PM
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I think its Aug 27th
Sweet. Miss the HBO 24/7 coverage for fights...Fight Camp 360 just doesn't cut it for me.
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#23
Old 07-18-2011, 08:14 PM
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Mayweather will win easy
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#24
Old 07-18-2011, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Mag56 View Post
Am I merely skeptical, and fantastically presumptuous, or does this decision seem drastically uncharacteristic for Floyd, with a possible faint whiff of a "set up"?

If you look closely at the details, it almost doesn't make any sense for Floyd to want this fight. A young, brash, tough, hard hitting, aggressive south paw, ten years his junior, who has knocked *down all of his opponents..., win, lose or draw. The kid is 24 years old, and is coming off a beautiful war with an undefeated Berto, who was favored in the fight. Even in his most recent loss, to Maidana, the Mexican kid knocked down his opponent three times, on his way to "losing" because of a bad cut. It proves that he'll go toe to toe with anyone, take a hit, and give it harder. Except for maybe his draw with Peterson, Ortiz is a forward marching beast, an unrelenting brawler, who obviously presents a REAL threat to Mayweather. Not only because he's a southpaw, or because he's a 24 year old picture perfect boxing prodigy, but because the kid really has his head on straight. He's charismatic, he's sharp, and he actually gives the fans what they want. A fight. He may not be Marvin Hagler, but he's not far off enough for Mayweather to consider him a realistic tune up.

How can Mayweather not see this as a massive risk? If he loses this fight, from a sudden left hook to the chin (and we all know he's vulnerable from that side), or constant aggression from a guy who will throw more punches (guaranteed) round for round, he will miss out on possibly the BIGGEST, most desired boxing event of our generation. This is why I ask the question to my fellow boxing fans; is this a fix? A prearranged, glorified sparring session, where Mayweather can prepare for Pacquaio with ease, and grant a young southpaw his biggest pay day...to date?

I understand that Ortiz may not have the skills of Mayweather, and this is all obvious. Floyd is a defensive genius, and would likely be confident with anyone anywhere near his weight, however, why choose Ortiz for a tune up? Why this particular young, CHAMPION southpaw? It's uncharacteristic for a guy who likes to fight smaller, weaker, or shot fighters.

We either have a case of a monetary agreement between a multi millionare and a future "star" of boxing, which will benefit them both, especially if Floyd wins, OR...a misjudgment of ego, and lack of foresight for Mayweather. Manny Pacquiao is waiting in the wings, regardless of the results, but I doubt Floyd would consciously, logically, risk this Magnum Opus of such an event, by stepping into the ring with an eager young warrior, who will be head hunting. I propose the idea that if Zab Judah & Mosley can hit Floyd, then Ortiz will hit him harder, and more often. Why risk it, before the possibility of the biggest fight in at least a decade?

And, I propose this, if Victor Ortiz ever reads this. Read this carefully. Win. Forget about the agreement, if there is one, and knock him out. Have some pride. Whatever amount of money Mayweather's camp, or investors, might give you for participating in a glorified sparring session..., I promise you will make far more, in spades, a hundred fold, in the future, if you knock out the undefeated Money May.

- T
You must not watch very much Mayweather. He usually picks a marketable opponent coming off a great win.
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#25
Old 07-18-2011, 08:31 PM
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Sure. That's true. I wouldn't debate that, however, Marquez had never fought at such a weight, and I think the size difference was a major issue. Plus, I think it was obvious how much slower Marquez was, even before the fight. Hatton beat Castillo on an early body shot, which seemed suspicious, and perfectly catered as a tune up to a planned Mayweather bout. Hatton was never considered to be in the same league as Money May, despite his win over Tszyu. Mosley seemed like the most promising, least cherry picked mirage, but years after his prime. Also, Margarito was drastically overrated, with or without loaded his gloves with a cement wrap, and I don't think most of us should've been as surprised as we were when Shane knocked him out. It was a great fight, though. Mosley took care of him a whole lot easier than with Mayorga. Mosley has always had more issues with technical boxers, like Forrest than with brawlers, and Mayweather obviously had an older, slower Mosley in his sights, knowing how to chow down.

That brings us to Oscar, who did knockout Mayorga, like most do, but before that he was beaten by Bernard and had an iffy, questionable victory over Sturm. I think Mayweather smells weakness and goes for it. With Ortiz, I'm not sure he smells the right meal. I think it's riskier than most might think.
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#26
Old 07-18-2011, 09:04 PM
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I haven't changed my stance on this fight.

Given Mayweather's layoff, the age disparity, and the factor that father time might get creep up on Floyd, Ortiz is an opponent that has a better chance to beat Floyd than either Mosley, Márquez, or Hatton.

I believe he has a better chance than all of them had going into the fight with Mayweather. He's young, fast, hard-hitting, has a southpaw style and is explosive. His only downfall, and one which I doubt he will succumb to, is heart.

I think he won't allow himself to be stopped or to quit in front of such a large audience. And another thing, this will be BY FAR Victor's biggest test in front of a MASSIVE audience watching globally and the kid's 24. Mental pressure anyone?

It's going to be interesting how Floyd's aged and see how many people change their outlook on a potential Mayweather/Pacquiao fight after this...
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#27
Old 07-18-2011, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Mag56 View Post
Sure. That's true. I wouldn't debate that, however, Marquez had never fought at such a weight, and I think the size difference was a major issue. Plus, I think it was obvious how much slower Marquez was, even before the fight. Hatton beat Castillo on an early body shot, which seemed suspicious, and perfectly catered as a tune up to a planned Mayweather bout. Hatton was never considered to be in the same league as Money May, despite his win over Tszyu. Mosley seemed like the most promising, least cherry picked mirage, but years after his prime. Also, Margarito was drastically overrated, with or without loaded his gloves with a cement wrap, and I don't think most of us should've been as surprised as we were when Shane knocked him out. It was a great fight, though. Mosley took care of him a whole lot easier than with Mayorga. Mosley has always had more issues with technical boxers, like Forrest than with brawlers, and Mayweather obviously had an older, slower Mosley in his sights, knowing how to chow down.

That brings us to Oscar, who did knockout Mayorga, like most do, but before that he was beaten by Bernard and had an iffy, questionable victory over Sturm. I think Mayweather smells weakness and goes for it. With Ortiz, I'm not sure he smells the right meal. I think it's riskier than most might think.
alright, just give Floyd his due after he defeats Ortiz
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#28
Old 07-20-2011, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Mag56 View Post
Am I merely skeptical, and fantastically presumptuous, or does this decision seem drastically uncharacteristic for Floyd, with a possible faint whiff of a "set up"?

If you look closely at the details, it almost doesn't make any sense for Floyd to want this fight. A young, brash, tough, hard hitting, aggressive south paw, ten years his junior, who has knocked *down all of his opponents..., win, lose or draw. The kid is 24 years old, and is coming off a beautiful war with an undefeated Berto, who was favored in the fight. Even in his most recent loss, to Maidana, the Mexican kid knocked down his opponent three times, on his way to "losing" because of a bad cut. It proves that he'll go toe to toe with anyone, take a hit, and give it harder. Except for maybe his draw with Peterson, Ortiz is a forward marching beast, an unrelenting brawler, who obviously presents a REAL threat to Mayweather. Not only because he's a southpaw, or because he's a 24 year old picture perfect boxing prodigy, but because the kid really has his head on straight. He's charismatic, he's sharp, and he actually gives the fans what they want. A fight. He may not be Marvin Hagler, but he's not far off enough for Mayweather to consider him a realistic tune up.

How can Mayweather not see this as a massive risk? If he loses this fight, from a sudden left hook to the chin (and we all know he's vulnerable from that side), or constant aggression from a guy who will throw more punches (guaranteed) round for round, he will miss out on possibly the BIGGEST, most desired boxing event of our generation. This is why I ask the question to my fellow boxing fans; is this a fix? A prearranged, glorified sparring session, where Mayweather can prepare for Pacquaio with ease, and grant a young southpaw his biggest pay day...to date?

I understand that Ortiz may not have the skills of Mayweather, and this is all obvious. Floyd is a defensive genius, and would likely be confident with anyone anywhere near his weight, however, why choose Ortiz for a tune up? Why this particular young, CHAMPION southpaw? It's uncharacteristic for a guy who likes to fight smaller, weaker, or shot fighters.

We either have a case of a monetary agreement between a multi millionare and a future "star" of boxing, which will benefit them both, especially if Floyd wins, OR...a misjudgment of ego, and lack of foresight for Mayweather. Manny Pacquiao is waiting in the wings, regardless of the results, but I doubt Floyd would consciously, logically, risk this Magnum Opus of such an event, by stepping into the ring with an eager young warrior, who will be head hunting. I propose the idea that if Zab Judah & Mosley can hit Floyd, then Ortiz will hit him harder, and more often. Why risk it, before the possibility of the biggest fight in at least a decade?

And, I propose this, if Victor Ortiz ever reads this. Read this carefully. Win. Forget about the agreement, if there is one, and knock him out. Have some pride. Whatever amount of money Mayweather's camp, or investors, might give you for participating in a glorified sparring session..., I promise you will make far more, in spades, a hundred fold, in the future, if you knock out the undefeated Money May.

- T
High quality post.
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#29
Old 07-21-2011, 08:54 AM
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My basic point, is more so a question of Victor's actual chances of victory. It'll be the general consensus that the odds are obviously in Floyd's favor, but overall, I'm not so sure this match up is as perfectly cherry picked as his previous bouts. If you look at the details, it's surprisingly juicy for Floyd, and as I said... possibly risky, at least compared to his last four or five fights. The fans should be excited about this match up, for several reasons, despite the media's obsession with a Pacquiao clash. Usually, there's something that Floyd, or his camp, sees in a fighter as being vulnerable to Floyd's style and comfort zone, and makes it easier to accept the fight. This might sound like a criticism, but rarely do any fighters get in the ring with someone they Know has a better chance of beating them they do their opponent. I would even go as far as to say that Judah's loss to Baldomir convinced Floyd to take that fight, however, if you rewatch the video, it's obvious that Mayweather had some issues with Judah, not necessarily because Zab was an elite boxer (and he was never terrible), but because he was a southpaw, and a respectably quick one at that.

This goes without saying, but Floyd is a defensive genius, who...when hit at all makes the crowd ooh and aah. The Judah fight is not an excellent example of a southpaw having his number, and this is not my point, since I don't think anyone has ever had his number, except for maybe the Gold Medal final he lost as an amateur. I don't think Floyd is very vulnerable to any boxer anywhere near his weight class, however, I'm not so sure Floyd has ever been hurt, and if anyone can get close enough and active enough to do it, it would be an aggressive southpaw. A young, tough, confident southpaw who will make Floyd engage. I understand that Floyd sees $ signs, and a glorified tune up for Manny in this match up with Ortiz, but when he says he won't look past the young Mexican, he better mean it. Ortiz is not half the athletic talent that Mayweather is, but war is rarely fair or understanding of knowledge and experience on their own, and in a sport where fine tuned men use their fists to hurt other men, Ortiz is the only one of the two who has actually, sincerely, gone to war.

This, on its own, is not enough to say that Ortiz will hurt Floyd. We've all seen what Mayweather has done to brawlers. See Gatti. Going to war in the past doesn't necessarily give you the secret powers to defeat a boxing genius, but Victor Ortiz is ten years younger, has knocked down every one of his opponents, and has no problem getting hit. Floyd will box, and get aggressive when he sees signs of vulnerability, but if he gets hit hard early (like he did against Corley, Judah & Mosley), we all know that Ortiz will press in hard, unlike his predecessors. Ortiz only knows one speed, which is forward, but he's young and quick enough to afford to get away with it most of the time, and he seems to enjoy getting hit. Against Maidana, Ortiz opened himself up, and admittedly had too much fun, got too wild, took a bad cut, and the fight was ended prematurely, but not before he planted the tough Argentinian three times. The fact that Ortiz has lost, and still continued to go to war, fight after fight, makes him scarier, or at least more likable as a threat.

Floyd will be quicker than Victor. He'll be sly, clever, and counter on almost everything the young Mexican throws, but when he gets hit, it won't be a small unresponsive Marquez, or a fading Mosley, who refuses to chase, but an enthusiastic kid trying to take his head off. If Mayweather truly believes that he wil stay in the center of the ring and engage (which is what he's said in the press conferences), and not "box", then I think we're all in that very, very rare fireworks show we've all be desperately wanting from a Mayweather fight.

Someone's gonna get hurt, here. If this fight is on the up and up, it certainly won't be Mosley/Pacquiao or Mayweather/Marquez, and I'm not promising Ward/Neary or Vitali/Lennox, but what we'll see will DEFINE Mayweather's image to the public. If he stops Ortiz, the Pacquiao fight will be the biggest fight event of our generation. If Ortiz somehow beats Floyd, Ortiz will be the new poster boy, and millions of sports fan will follow. Many people dislike Mayweather, and if this kid beats him, we'll have a likable boxing star for the mainstream, with a huge future in front of him.

Last edited by T.Mag56; 07-21-2011 at 09:04 AM.
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