Did Jack Dempsey cheat against Jess willard?

[Forza]

This could be just a myth, but i've read that in an interview 30 years later willard showed the interviewer a piece of metal or brass and said it fell out of dempsey's glove after the fight and he picked it up.

Anyone else heard similar stories?

[Steak]

Ive heard a lot of stories about it, and it seems he did. BUT...I dont have any concrete(lol) evidence either, so, I sort of just count it as a decent win. ITs not like a win over Willard is that legendary in the first place.


However, he clearly badly cheated against Sharkey. You can see about 3 or 4 low blows in a row. The left hook KD was legit, but you can see Sharkey writhing around on the ground grabbing his nuts. Even when they drag him to his corner all he cares about is the fact that his balls are crushed. hell, he crumbles back to the ground after they bring him to his corner, holding his balls.

That knockout was NOT legitimate. And Dempsey was losing the fight. I dont count that as a win for him.

[Barnburner]

Originally Posted by Steak

Ive heard a lot of stories about it, and it seems he did. BUT...I dont have any concrete(lol) evidence either, so, I sort of just count it as a decent win. ITs not like a win over Willard is that legendary in the first place.


However, he clearly badly cheated against Sharkey. You can see about 3 or 4 low blows in a row. The left hook KD was legit, but you can see Sharkey writhing around on the ground grabbing his nuts. Even when they drag him to his corner all he cares about is the fact that his balls are crushed. hell, he crumbles back to the ground after they bring him to his corner, holding his balls.

That knockout was NOT legitimate. And Dempsey was losing the fight. I dont count that as a win for him.

Sharkey shouldn't have turned away.

[Steak]

Originally Posted by Barnburner

Sharkey shouldn't have turned away.

bs. The low blows are what ended the fight, not the knockdown. Sharkey was wide awake while he was writhing in pain on the ground.

KD yes, even under questionable circumstances. but the knockout itself was clearly caused by low blows, not the short left hook. Sharkey looked like he was already on his way to taking a knee while he was getting hit, which is why his feet looked sort of swept underneath him.

[BigStereotype]

I think that if Willard found anything of the sort, he would have pointed it out post-fight, no? It's like Billy Collins, Sr. saying 25 years later "oh yeah, I found some plaster in Resto's glove." It would lack credibility. Maybe that's a bad example because Resto's gloves WERE loaded, but my point is, if Dempsey's gloves were loaded and Willard had any clue of it, we would know for SURE.

[barfly12]

The story about Dempsey having "loaded gloves" against Willard gained credibility when Doc Kearns peddaled the story to, I believe, True magazine. Kearns was broke, and very bitter about Dempsey. True magazine said they would only pay for a story that was "explosive". So Kearns being a scum bag made up a story about him putting plaster of paris on Dempsey's handwraps before the fight. It should be noted, that item was not in the original version of the article. Kearns added it when True magazine turned down the first version. Dempsey did throw low against Sharkey, but Sharkey was a jerk for turning to the ref in the middle of a fight. Protect yourself at all times is an eternal truth in a boxing ring.

[La_Vibora]

The fight doctor Ferdie Pacheco would also make a claim that he saw footage at some private event once upon that showed a metal sp!ke clearly fall out of Dempsey's gloves after the fight. With that said I don't believe it for various reasons already listed here, also if a guy illegally beat you with dangerous object, would you be making videos like this with him:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5rV9y_LbFE

[Greatest1942]

Originally Posted by BigStereotype

I think that if Willard found anything of the sort, he would have pointed it out post-fight, no? It's like Billy Collins, Sr. saying 25 years later "oh yeah, I found some plaster in Resto's glove." It would lack credibility. Maybe that's a bad example because Resto's gloves WERE loaded, but my point is, if Dempsey's gloves were loaded and Willard had any clue of it, we would know for SURE.

Boxing Illustrated conducted an experiment to test whether it was possible to use plaster of paris successfully under fighting conditions. The results were reported in the May 1964 issue of BI, pp 20-24, 66. Hugh Benbow and Perry Payne (manager and trainer of Cleveland Williams) used plaster of paris on Cleveland's hands and reenacted what Kearns said occurred in Dempsey's dressing room. After 35 minutes of toasting to reenact the 114-degree heat of Toledo that day, Cleveland Williams hit the heavy bag five times. Benbow examined the wraps and found that the plaster had cracked and crumbled. "This stuff." said Cleve, "wouldn't do anybody any good."



“That question has been discussed time and again by persons incapable of giving a proper answer except through hearsay. I watched the crumbling of the “Pottowatomie Giant”, and after the terrible beating that Willard took, I heard too the many remarks that no human being could deal out so much punishment with padded mitts unless there was something hidden in the gloves. I was at the fight. I saw Jimmy Deforest, Dempsey’s trainer tape Jack’s hands. I watched every move of the men in Jack’s quarters. I think I can clear the atmosphere once and for all with an accurate version of what happened. Jack Dempsey had no loaded gloves, and no plaster of paris over his bandages. I watched the proceedings and the only person who had anything to do with the taping of Jacks’ hands was Deforest. Kearns had nothing to do with it, so his plaster of paris story is simply not true. Deforest himself said that he regarded the stories of Dempsey’s gloves being loaded as libel, calling them “trash” and said he did not apply any foreign substance to them, which I can verify since I watched the taping. It was the 4th of July, it was very hot and he did pour some water on his hands when Jack complained of the heat and that hardened them, but that was all that was done. Kearns began trashing Dempsey after they had a falling out, and that’s all there is to it.” ---Nat Fleischer.


Anyways on the film I do see that Willard himself checks Dempsey's gloves. This alone should put the suspicion to rest. Wouldn't Willard at least have felt it.

Bottom Line it was a fabricated story told by Kearns. Dempsey did not have loaded gloves.

[Sugarj]

Originally Posted by La_Vibora

The fight doctor Ferdie Pacheco would also make a claim that he saw footage at some private event once upon that showed a metal sp!ke clearly fall out of Dempsey's gloves after the fight. With that said I don't believe it for various reasons already listed here, also if a guy illegally beat you with dangerous object, would you be making videos like this with him:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5rV9y_LbFE

Your a legend for posting that. I've never seen it before and it made my day.

Damn right! If someone had smashed my eye socket and jaw to pieces with a bar of metal, in gloves already loaded with plaster of Paris. I certainly would not be appearing in videos like that with a big grin on my face!!

And if I was Dempsey......and guilty of the crime, I wouldn't want to go anywhere near Jess Willard. I certainly wouldn't be wanting to waltz with the guy or kiss him.

[Greatest1942]

Originally Posted by Sugarj

Your a legend for posting that. I've never seen it before and it made my day.

Damn right! If someone had smashed my eye socket and jaw to pieces with a bar of metal, in gloves already loaded with plaster of Paris. I certainly would not be appearing in videos like that with a big grin on my face!!

And if I was Dempsey......and guilty of the crime, I wouldn't want to go anywhere near Jess Willard. I certainly wouldn't be wanting to waltz with the guy or kiss him.

The July 5, 1919 NY Times quotes Willard as saying, "Dempsey is a remarkable hitter. It was the first time that I had ever been knocked off my feet. I have sent many birds home in the same bruised condition that I am in, and now I know how they felt. I sincerely wish Dempsey all the luck possible and hope that he garnishes all the riches that comes with the championship. I have had my fling with the title. I was champion for four years and I assure you that they'll never have to give a benefit for me. I have invested the money I have made."

It was reported that Willard had his jaw broken at 13 places. I doubt you can open your mouth with that amount of injuries. Him giving the interview points out that his injuries were exaggerated.

Teddy Hayes (another Dempsey second) cut the wraps after the fight and had no trouble doing so. No trace of plaster.