Economic Freedom and quality of life.

[Grand Champ]

I've heard Jim Jeffries is hung like a horse.

[Nuurzhaelan]

Oh, and professor Jim? Economic Freedom accorded to corporations and businesses by the abolition of the minimum wage would egregiously deteriorate the quality of life for millions already working minimum wage jobs. Since it's the title of your thread I thought that I'd...yeah, I thought I'd point that out for ya.

[- v e t -]

sad to see how a narrow mind can cloud one's judgement so....

[Nuurzhaelan]

Originally Posted by - v e t -

sad to see how a narrow mind can cloud one's judgement so....

Do explain, please.

[THE_FORKLIFT]

Dont believe in it when you get big corporations freedom they will overtake other businesses with ease, then decrease jobs by overworking employees, paying less. and giving less benefits.... Some examples are happening now..... Some kind of Control they need and for them to pay they're fare share of taxes if they dont like it Im sure others will...

I think its a sham when they disagree for them to say if we ask for the taxes they are going to go... They get they're fair amount of profit why not be fair if they dont like it somebody else will step up for there kind of profit.

[Nuurzhaelan]

I see you're posting again, Jim.

Will you accept my challenge? Will you devise a budget for someone making minimum wage that offers a reasonable standard of living?

Reasonable:

TV (no HD, no cable)
dvd player
small library of dvds (perhaps 30)
small radio and perhaps a cd player

household expenses (food, electricity, water, heat in winter, home/renter's ins. taxes, phone (cell/land line but not both) and clothing (we cannot assume that he'll never need clothing again...let's say $100.00 per year for drawers and undershirts and maybe a pair of denim or two)

if our single adult lives in a major metropolitan area, account for increased taxes but no vehicle or auto ins. overhead. If not, adjust for a vehicle (used...anticipate moderately frequent repair costs and maintenance) and the insane fuel prices.

use lowest cost area in USA


Go!

[AKATheMack]

Originally Posted by Nuurzhaelan

I see you're posting again, Jim.

Will you accept my challenge? Will you devise a budget for someone making minimum wage that offers a reasonable standard of living?

Reasonable:

TV (no HD, no cable)
dvd player
small library of dvds (perhaps 30)
small radio and perhaps a cd player

household expenses (food, electricity, water, heat in winter, home/renter's ins. taxes, phone (cell/land line but not both) and clothing (we cannot assume that he'll never need clothing again...let's say $100.00 per year for drawers and undershirts and maybe a pair of denim or two)

if our single adult lives in a major metropolitan area, account for increased taxes but no vehicle or auto ins. overhead. If not, adjust for a vehicle (used...anticipate moderately frequent repair costs and maintenance) and the insane fuel prices.

use lowest cost area in USA


Go!

Its hard to impossible to survive on minimum wage, but raising minimum wage on all businesses only eliminates the small ones. For every person who would be living more comfortably, at least another one would be unemployed.

[Jim Jeffries]

Originally Posted by AKATheMack

Its hard to impossible to survive on minimum wage, but raising minimum wage on all businesses only eliminates the small ones. For every person who would be living more comfortably, at least another one would be unemployed.

I believe that min wage was a bad idea to begin with, but you can't suddenly eliminate it. Best thing you can do is keep it where it is until the market wage catches up and it becomes irrelevant.

And yeah, raising it, especially to the proposed 9.50 would be devastating right now. I don't have the patience to teach Nurz basic economics right now, especially after he wrote off 3 ATG economists (Friedman, Sowell and Williams) as kooks.

What Nurz can't or won't understand, is that people that are excluded from entering the workplace by min wage, sometimes have no other choice but to commit crimes, or milk the system (which is worse than struggling to make ends meet on min wage.) And he thinks you can continue to raise min wage indefinitely without negatively affecting inflation and unemployment, which is naive.

[Nuurzhaelan]

Originally Posted by Jim Jeffries

I believe that min wage was a bad idea to begin with, but you can't suddenly eliminate it. Best thing you can do is keep it where it is until the market wage catches up and it becomes irrelevant.

And yeah, raising it, especially to the proposed 9.50 would be devastating right now. I don't have the patience to teach Nurz basic economics right now, especially after he wrote off 3 ATG economists (Friedman, Sowell and Williams) as kooks.

What Nurz can't or won't understand, is that people that are excluded from entering the workplace by min wage, sometimes have no other choice but to commit crimes, or milk the system (which is worse than struggling to make ends meet on min wage.) And he thinks you can continue to raise min wage indefinitely without negatively affecting inflation and unemployment, which is naive.

More like you cannot defend the premise that free market principles increase the quality of life while concomitantly condemning minimum wage and its supposedly negative effect on the economy. There are at least two sides to every argument, and I have admitted that the minimum wage does add to inflation (although marginally, I am sure), but what you cannot fully admit is that working for the market wage would grossly detract from the already abysmal quality of life that unskilled workers must endure presently. You come close to admitting it in your opening line, but that's as far as you go.

I congratulate you on that, at least. What I am arguing is that abolishing it is far worse than having it; and in my view, allowing it to lag behind until it is irrelevant is the same as abolishing it.

Those economists you referenced did not make sophisticated arguments. What they DID was highlight the issues that promoted their argument without even glossing over the ones that would detract from it. An effective argument presents both sides and then attempts to parse each to reveal their merits and flaws while explaining the favorable opinion of one side over the other. That is why I dismissed them. Either they presented an oversimplified argument, or I found their presentation wanting.

Now, I understand what you're saying. Eliminating minimum wage would end unemployment (or greatly curtail it) but it would not provide for improved quality of life supposed by the video in the beginning. Being underemployed is just as bad as being unemployed.

I am genuinely not trying to antagonize you, but if you 'don't have the patience to teach' me the basics of economy then I suspect you either don't understand it or cannot defend your point of view. If your points are so common sense, then it should be simple to explain and easy for me to understand.