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#41
Old 07-13-2011, 06:07 PM
[ DUBBZZ ]
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Originally Posted by Enayze View Post
Why did it take God 6 days to create everything? That I cannot definitely answer, only God can, but I am assuming to create a base of time and its understanding for mankind. The 7th of day of rest is supposed to be symbolic for mankind to work 6 days and to rest on the 7th.

God did not mess up, he created everything in perfect order and condition, but he also gave mankind free will. If mankind did not have free will then we would be robots. And because of mankind's free will which ultimately lead them to sin, God had already a plan for their redemption.

Is God finished creating? I do not know, but I do not think so. Is he satisfied? I dont know ask God.
So the story itself is true but the details are symbolic? Ok. Does anyone
know where this creation story came from? Do we know who the author of
Genesis is and how did it get verified as the true word of god? How do we
know that the author wasn't just writing a story *Or that he wasn't just
some crazy mofo just making stuff up claiming to have talked to god? The
bible is true because the bible tells me its true?

According to christians; god has a plan for everyone & everything. He knows
exactly what we are going to do & what is going to happen. *If he knows
everything, that means he already knows who he will be saving & who he has
condemned before they were even born. How is this free will?

If that's the case, doesn't that mean that he knew Adam & Eve would give
into temptation? (Don't tell me this incident occurred behind his
back...was he "resting" at the time?) Therefore it was his plan all along
to punish them & everyone else in the world. And if it was his plan to
forgive us anyway, why go through all the trouble of sending his son down
here to die for our sins? Why did he wait so many thousands of years after
the Adam & Eve incident to send Jesus? What was the point of that? So he
can convince himself to forgive us? Wtf??? Who is he trying to impress? Who
does he have to answer to? Why can't he just forgive us? And why do we
still sin today? Why are we still responsible for our sins if god has
already forgiven us?
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#42
Old 07-13-2011, 06:29 PM
Peter Griffin
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Originally Posted by MANIAC310 View Post
4 billion while the universe is 13 billion


according to the bible it's only 6 thousand. I dk how they explain dinosaurs
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#43
Old 07-13-2011, 06:40 PM
120
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I don't think the bible has any time frame as to age for the planet. All it says is that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Then it goes to mention that in 6 days everything was created but it also tells you that to God one day is like a thousand and a thousand like a day. Another thing is that men who wrote the bible couldn't have possibly understand modern astronomy and geology so they couldn't understand the concept and the history of Earth being billions of years old. So, the bible's earth history is nothing more than a metaphor and a story for those who were around at the time
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#44
Old 07-13-2011, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Cappucino View Post
The earth is 10k years old like the Bible says
Me Gran's older than that, yer poofter!
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#45
Old 07-13-2011, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deedubbzz07 View Post
So the story itself is true but the details are symbolic? Ok. Does anyone
know where this creation story came from? Do we know who the author of
Genesis is and how did it get verified as the true word of god? How do we
know that the author wasn't just writing a story *Or that he wasn't just
some crazy mofo just making stuff up claiming to have talked to god? The
bible is true because the bible tells me its true?

According to christians; god has a plan for everyone & everything. He knows
exactly what we are going to do & what is going to happen. *If he knows
everything, that means he already knows who he will be saving & who he has
condemned before they were even born. How is this free will?

If that's the case, doesn't that mean that he knew Adam & Eve would give
into temptation? (Don't tell me this incident occurred behind his
back...was he "resting" at the time?) Therefore it was his plan all along
to punish them & everyone else in the world. And if it was his plan to
forgive us anyway, why go through all the trouble of sending his son down
here to die for our sins? Why did he wait so many thousands of years after
the Adam & Eve incident to send Jesus? What was the point of that? So he
can convince himself to forgive us? Wtf??? Who is he trying to impress? Who
does he have to answer to? Why can't he just forgive us? And why do we
still sin today? Why are we still responsible for our sins if god has
already forgiven us?
The whole Jesus sacrifice makes sense only in the context of the Levitical tradition in which the priestly class or Levites (sons of Levi - it's in the bible) dictate which sins require which delicious tasty sacrifice to be made to them. Uh... to the LORD. Only the Levites were permitted to commune with The LORD and approach the Tabernacle so any blood sacrifices for forgiveness had to go through them, and naturally they demanded the best of everything for themselves. Uh, for The LORD.

They barely even bothered to describe their own interests in this, with the burning sacrifice being described by its "pleasing aroma".

In any case in an era where every sin has a prescribed sacrifice it was deeply ingrained that no sin could be absolved without there being a sacrifice to the LORD (I don't get why the capital letters either, seems a bit stupid) therefore the LORD produced the ultimate sacrifice by sending his son in human form to earth. Which is a bit like buying yourself a completely shit-hot christmas present and opening it on Christmas day going "I wonder what this is....".

Nowadays people just accept the wacky notion of human sacrifice as atonement for sins they haven't actually committed because it's well ingrained in the culture.
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#46
Old 07-13-2011, 08:14 PM
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It is older than dirt!!
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#47
Old 07-15-2011, 09:02 PM
Enayze
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Originally Posted by -Kev- View Post
Does god ever hand anything to any one? Like let's say a poor-class man or woman who has been working their whole life, and have always been poor, and struggle to get to the next day, and they die poor, but they were religious and always asked god for a better life, and they never sinned. How come god let them die poor, when they asked him for help, and they never did anything wrong?
God oriented people, people who follow Christ, in many times are poor and struggle to get to the next day. In 2 Timothy 3:12 it is written "Indeed, all who want to live a godly life in union with the Messiah Jesus will be persecuted."

However that does not mean since they are poor they are unhappy or unfilled in life. It all depends on your goals of life and what you find important. A person who wants a better life and become more rich is one who is focused on this life and to be like the world. His reward will be worldly if he achieves it. The poor people however who live Godly lives and are persecuted store up treasures in heaven, and their reward will be infinitely greater than someone who achieves a lot of money in this world, but fails to store up heavenly treasure.

Jesus said in Matthew 6:19-20 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal."
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#48
Old 07-15-2011, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by D.I.E.S.E.L View Post
Religious people don't believe in evolution but yet they're selective as to what is real/proven in science e.g Gravity etc.
Gravity isn't proven.
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#49
Old 07-15-2011, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deedubbzz07 View Post
So the story itself is true but the details are symbolic? Ok. Does anyone
know where this creation story came from? Do we know who the author of
Genesis is and how did it get verified as the true word of god? How do we
know that the author wasn't just writing a story *Or that he wasn't just
some crazy mofo just making stuff up claiming to have talked to god? The
bible is true because the bible tells me its true?
The story of Genesis and the first five books which compose the Torah are said to be written by Moses. The bible does not have one single author, it has over 40.

Quote:
According to christians; god has a plan for everyone & everything. He knows
exactly what we are going to do & what is going to happen. *If he knows
everything, that means he already knows who he will be saving & who he has
condemned before they were even born. How is this free will?
God already knows the choices of every man and therefore their fate. He never took away your free will however. If from today and for the rest of your life you deedubz reject God and therefore end up in hell, is your excuse going to be "Why didnt you save me God, you knew I would reject you and not believe in you, so why didnt you make me believe in you so I could be saved?"

Wouldn't God then answer somewhere along the lines of, If I made you believe in me so that you could be saved wouldn't I have then taken away your free will in doing so?

Quote:
If that's the case, doesn't that mean that he knew Adam & Eve would give
into temptation? (Don't tell me this incident occurred behind his
back...was he "resting" at the time?) Therefore it was his plan all along
to punish them & everyone else in the world. And if it was his plan to
forgive us anyway, why go through all the trouble of sending his son down
here to die for our sins? Why did he wait so many thousands of years after
the Adam & Eve incident to send Jesus? What was the point of that? So he
can convince himself to forgive us? Wtf??? Who is he trying to impress? Who
does he have to answer to?
The way many Christians see it is God wants to share with us all of his creation. However he also doesnt want robots, and he wants people out of their own free will to distinguish between good and bad and realize the truth. So when he created Adam and Eve, yes he knew that they were going to sin. But he also knew that they and the rest of humanity would be redeemed through Jesus Christ. As for why wait so long? In God's realm of time it is written that a thousand years for men is like a day for God. Therefore he really did not wait that long if you are going by His time. However for the human time, this was necessary because He needed to first establish a people who would follow Him and His rules so out of them Christ could be born as a sacrifice for all. The Hebrews were assigned this privilege because of Abraham. And to organize a nation that explicitly worshiped God took some time as shown in the bible.

Quote:
Why can't he just forgive us? And why do we
still sin today? Why are we still responsible for our sins if god has
already forgiven us?
You ask why cant He just forgive us and then you ask why are we still responsible for our sins if God already has forgiven us. And the answer is He will forgive those who accept Christ as Lord and Savior and repent or turn from their evil ways. Once a person has done this and gotten on a path to be a Christian they will be forgiven for their sins.

People however who do not accept Christ as Lord and Savior will be responsible for their sins when faced before God. You see Christ was a sacrifice for mankind so that his blood would wash away all of those who believe unto Him their sins. If someone rejects Christ then he must account for his wrong doings before God.
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#50
Old 07-16-2011, 01:34 AM
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God already knows the choices of every man and therefore their fate. He never took away your free will however. If from today and for the rest of your life you deedubz reject God and therefore end up in hell, is your excuse going to be "Why didnt you save me God, you knew I would reject you and not believe in you, so why didnt you make me believe in you so I could be saved?"

Wouldn't God then answer somewhere along the lines of, If I made you believe in me so that you could be saved wouldn't I have then taken away your free will in doing so?
This is nonsense, particularly the last part. You tried but failed.

You're assuming that every human would still choose to obey God if they knew he existed? That's the equivalent of saying that because ALL people know that they're going to get caught and get the death penalty, if they kill/rape someone, they won't do it. Yet people still choose to break the law even if it means life in prison, Death. Unless he is forcing them, they would still be free to live the opposite and choose Hell over Heaven. Consider your argument rebutted.

Conclusion: If there was a God who knew what every Soul was going to do from birth until death, with God being the creator of that Soul. Then that means that GOD is indirectly responsible for the actions that Souls (of the Man or Woman) has taken. Calling it Free-Will is be a B.S. alibi for your GOD. He created them, he knows what they're going to do before they do it, that means he is responsible. Why blame mere mortals for their nature.

The only way your Bull-Shhh story would hold up is if you downgraded the powers of you God. By saying that God DOESN'T KNOW EVERY MOVE WE'RE GOING TO MAKE FROM BIRTH UNTIL DEATH, and we can surprise him. Which would also make sense why he created us. Entertainment value like a suspense thriller movie who's outcome you still don't know. IF NOT that, then it's all pointless and doesn't make much sense.
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