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#21
Old 06-16-2011, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poet682006 View Post
He wasn't. It was just that Hitler was using the athletic success of any non-Jewish German to boost the prestige of his regime.

Poet
If anything...

Wasn't schmeling ANTI nazi?
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#22
Old 06-16-2011, 08:49 PM
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Jack Johnson set blacks back in boxing and made it more difficult for Louis to be heavyweight champion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Roxborough
cursed Johnson out, told him how he had held up the progress of the Negro people for years with his attitude, how he was a low-down, no-good ******, and told him he wasn't welcome in my camp anymore."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Louis
" Jack Johnson ruined boxing for blacks," he wrote, "especially black heavyweights."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Jeanette
"Jack forgot about his old friends after he became champion and drew the color line against his own people."
and his win over Jeffries is laughably bad. he should get little to no credit for it. its even less significant than Holmes' win over Ali.
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#23
Old 06-16-2011, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Steak View Post
Jack Johnson set blacks back in boxing and made it more difficult for Louis to be heavyweight champion.




and his win over Jeffries is laughably bad. he should get little to no credit for it. its even less significant than Holmes' win over Ali.
Once again, who said anything about this being a great win for his resume? That is absolutely ridiculous. I never said it was a tremendous victory for his resume, but for his people.

And Roxborough & Joe Louis's statements can not be taken seriously which are obviously the strongest case for your argument but they can't be taken seriously because of the bad blood between Jack Johnson and a lightweight named Jack Blackburn. Nobody would spar with Johnson in 1908 and Blackburn stepped up to the plate. Johnson had a bad attitude and tried to take Blackburn out but Blackburn stayed on his feet for the rest of the sparring session and continued to brag about it afterwards which caused severe bad blood between the two. After a prison stint Blackburn came out and was asked by Roxborough to train Louis and Blackburn from the gate talked bad about Johnson, and Johnson in return talked horribly about Louis because of his trainer which sparked a riot after Louis lost to Max in the 1st fight. Johnson bragged about how he knew Louis wasn't nothing special.

If Louis didn't train with Blackburn, I highly doubt they would have ever had beef. You can't take into account somebody's opinion who's extremely bias hatred against the man. They told him never be seen with a white woman in public or never smile after beating a white man, but like that's so damn hard. I never said Johnson was a class act but he was a hero to all of the black world because of his victory when everybody was saying he was gonna lose.

Louis even defended Johnson after they first met but after Johnson kept talking bad because of the person who trained him that's how their beef started. So for somebody to say it made it harder to be champion just because you couldn't be seen with a white woman or smile after beating a white guy is LAUGHABLE.

Source

I never said Johnson was beloved by all after the win either, I said it was a big win for his people WHO ADMIRED him afterwards. Like to a real non-bias person like the true GOAT Heavyweight Muhammad Ali if you don't believe Johnson was influential because Ali use to say he was influenced by Johnson who compared the hate for Johnson to his own after he refused to join the military.

STILL DON'T BELIEVE HE WAS INFLUENTIAL? Thats why the National Film Preservation put the film about the fight in the National Film Registry and deemed it "historically significant".

I rest my case.....
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#24
Old 06-17-2011, 01:03 AM
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The most significant fight to me will always be Joe louis vs Max Schmeling II.
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#25
Old 06-17-2011, 01:25 AM
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I never said the fight wasnt a big deal, but dont put some ridiculous spin as if Johnson paved the way for black champions. fact of the matter is he made it more difficult for them, which is why Louis had to go through all those pains to be the anti Jack Johnson.


read that Joe Jeanette quote. a lot of blacks at the time felt hurt by Johnson's actions, because he turned his back completely on his roots and refused to fight blacks.

and lol at saying that Ali was non-biased.
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#26
Old 06-17-2011, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Steak View Post
I never said the fight wasnt a big deal, but dont put some ridiculous spin as if Johnson paved the way for black champions. fact of the matter is he made it more difficult for them, which is why Louis had to go through all those pains to be the anti Jack Johnson.


read that Joe Jeanette quote. a lot of blacks at the time felt hurt by Johnson's actions, because he turned his back completely on his roots and refused to fight blacks.

and lol at saying that Ali was non-biased.
How is Ali bias in this case? Johnson died when he was 4. Not like Ali met him in real life or something.

I'm not trying to say Jack Johnson was some Martin Luther ****ing King Jr. But to say he didn't make a difference is a bit of a stretch as well. He pretty much stood for what the civil rights was all about, EQUALITY. Whereas Joe Louis was just acting like a common 1800's slave with his humbleness, I mean don't take it the wrong way I give all the respect in the world for Joe for being the next black heavyweight champion, 2nd best heavyweight of all time. But he pretty much just bent over to get his opportunities. Of course he was talented but he bent over to be accepted. Johnson just acted like a WHITE MAN during his time. Showed that he shouldn't be any different then anybody else. He liked woman and he liked fast cars and flaunting his money.

As for him ducking black fighters, especially Sam Langford my argument is "High risk, no reward." Yeah we can shout how great Langford is today but back then who wants to see to black people going at it for the most prestigious crown in the sport? They like seeing too black people beat the piss out of each other but not to see who the best fighter in the world is, they felt that should be a white man's glory. People hated him, nobody wanted to see him fight another black man, people wanted to see him fight white people to see him lose to a white person. Nothing would have satisfied them more back then for a white man to beat Jack Johnson. That's my case for that. Feel free to argue it. And where just going by the shoulda, coulda, woulda with him holding back future heavyweight champions, but even if he was humble and Langford got a shot, nobody can say for a fact he wins the title, he was great but nothing's a fact until it happens. Maybe the possibility increases but It's not like Dempsey didn't duck him either.

And here's another little fun fact , if white people didn't hate black people so much how come black people were murdered all across the United States for celebrating Johnson's win? Their were Hundreds of reported lynching's a year, who knows what the actual numbers are including the ones not reported.

Last edited by JAB5239; 06-17-2011 at 05:14 AM.
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#27
Old 06-17-2011, 02:48 AM
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Jack Johnson acted like a white man living life as an equal after working hard up the ladder where he got. Not because "he was humble" like Louis. Not that many black people hated him for his style, the majority of them thought of him as a hero for proving blacks weren't inferior. Like I said blacks died for celebrating his win.

Black people mostly turned on him for talking ***** on Louis and rubbing it in after Louis first lost to Max.
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