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#41
Old 02-19-2011, 11:19 PM
AL YANKAB*TCH
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Originally Posted by cupocity303 View Post
Thank You.

Perhaps I should've expanded on the Mandatory VS Optional Tax, if it's not clear.

Also the Sales Tax, we get rid of it. Yeah, it is specific as it covers sales, but it is not specific on what the Government will actually do with it. If there is specific explanation that Sales Tax will fund basic Defense spending, maybe.

IF no explanation for what it's specifically being used, then get rid of it.
Absolutely.... I'm sick of paying money into a "central fund" where I have no clue how it is going to be used.
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#42
Old 02-19-2011, 11:53 PM
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They did the same thing with ACORN, if Democrats don't do a thing to stop them.........pubs will continue to walk all over them. The entire system is ****.
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#43
Old 02-20-2011, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by SkillspayBills View Post
They did the same thing with ACORN, if Democrats don't do a thing to stop them.........pubs will continue to walk all over them. The entire system is ****.
ACORN was just a New World Order plot to put black people in white houses or something. Maybe Space Captain Jack can explain.
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#44
Old 02-20-2011, 01:07 AM
Kevin Malone
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Originally Posted by cupocity303 View Post
You didn't answer his question.

Who pays for the Roads that you probably use every day to drive your car?

Some taxing is needed. I would just change the way we go about taxing people.

Personally I'm in favor of the right to opt out of Social Security, if you don't plan on using it. Especially since it's not gonna be there anyway for those still 30 years away from the retirement age.

I'd do away with generic State Tax, Federal Tax, that can be used for almost anything and apply specific taxes like a


Infrastructure Tax - which could ONLY be used for that purpose. Things like renewing roads, building new ones, railways etc,. This would be MANDATORY, since we all share it, use it.

Police Dept. Tax on a state level -
whatever revenue they get can only be used for all things Police. This would be mandatory as we all share the problem of Crimes being committed and need people to prevent crime as well OR investigate a crime.

Fire Dept. Tax -
you can opt out of this, BUT if your House is on fire and you opted out, YOUR HOUSE BURNS. If the Fire spreads to the neighbors house and they do pay Fire Dept. Tax, the Department puts their fire out, NOT YOURS. I'd only make the Fire Dept. Tax mandatory in places like California, where the Forrest fires are a problem for everybody.

Hell we can even go further, going back to the Public Roads topic. You can opt out of funding new Roads being built, or old ones being fixed but you lose your right to use Public Roads in that State. Which means you don't have a right to own a car.

A Opt in or out Public Option Health Insurance -
Not an actual Tax but if you wanna buy Insurance from Government instead of a Private Company (which I would OPT in to), you simply pay once a month bill like you would with any other Bill. This wouldn't be a burden Tax payers would share together like the mentioned above, it would be Individual specific. The additional revenue for this would come from a Marijuana-Cocaine-Heroin Tax. You end the War on Drugs, start Taxing Marijuana, Cocaine and Heroin specifically, and the revenue from that goes into funding the Govt. Health Insurance, which again you OPT IN OR OUT OF on a individual basis. The Revenue for this is the people who choose to pay for it, and the Drug Tax mentioned before.


In conclusion, everything that isn't Tax specific like mentioned above, gets abolished. If you want to use Citizen's taxes on funding Abortion just for example, then you have to introduce a Abortion Tax - which should be OPTIONAL. If only 10 people agree to pay that tax, than that means you can only use the revenue generated from those 10 people, no spending above that or using money from other Taxes, which creates DEFICIT PROBLEMS.


Extra suggestion, plenty of examples like this:

Foreign Aid Tax -
Introduce it as OPTIONAL. Whoever wants to pay this tax, pays it. And whatever revenue generated, can be used. If nobody pays this tax, then Foreign countries get ZILCH.



All these suggestions are well and good for you but you are forgetting one thing: The average guy who wishes to change government and have a system that helps people has never been in charge and never will be in charge. Those in governments are the leeches of society. That's how they work. Government itself is a monopoly. It's by it's nature expensive, inefficient and destructive to human freedom.

If that wasn't how it worked there would be no need for government to have it's own police force, court system, military and cages to protect itself from those they harm (hint: it's everyone they rule over).

The truth is you can only hope to eliminate and avoid government force, not change it in a positive way.
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#45
Old 02-20-2011, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Malone View Post
All these suggestions are well and good for you but you are forgetting one thing: .

NO, not just for me, but for you too. Unless you're telling me right here that you don't use the Public Road. Or if you do, who do you want paying for it?

Quote:
The average guy who wishes to change government and have a system that helps people has never been in charge and never will be in charge. Those in governments are the leeches of society. That's how they work. Government itself is a monopoly.
Yes I agree, there are too many loopholes. Too many branches of government with too many different characters.

This is why I would be all in favor of a transition from Representative Democracy, which is what we have now, where Legislators make all of our decisions for us, to a Direct Democracy like Switzerland - where the citizens take votes on a weekly basis to make laws and where & how their money is being spent. And where politicians are not really needed.


Direct Democracy on a State to State basis.




Quote:
It's by it's nature expensive, inefficient and destructive to human freedom.

If that wasn't how it worked there would be no need for government to have it's own police force, court system, military and cages to protect itself from those they harm (hint: it's everyone they rule over).
Wait a minute, you're having a mental block here, I think. Are you saying that Police is only there to protect Government? What about you, or the individual citizen? We're talking Murder, Rape, Robbery and other activities that harm others being committed by average citizens. No Police to keep these people in check?

Courts are there to put these people away. If you don't agree with this then I don't know what to tell you.

I've said this before, I'm all for Anarchy as long as we're being realistic about what's gonna happen. I will be free to Rape your wife, make you watch it, and then kill you too. And you will be free to kill me back IF YOU CAN......no Law Enforcement will be there to send anybody off to jail.

If you're ready to accept these terms as part of your ultimate freedom, then bring it on.




Quote:
The truth is you can only hope to eliminate and avoid government force, not change it in a positive way

As I said above. We can abolish it completely but you're gonna have to accept that there will be no rule of law and thus CIVILITY WILL BE GONE on a mass scale. If you accept this, then fine.

If you don't and are telling me that we will live just fine without Rule of Law, where things aren't so different than they are now, just more freedom for everyone...THEN YOU'RE LIVING A PIPE DREAM.

Last edited by Cupo303; 02-20-2011 at 01:33 AM..
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#46
Old 02-20-2011, 01:38 AM
Kevin Malone
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There is no civility and there is chaos now. Is what we have in the world considered civil? 99%+ of the people in the world don't decide to not kill or steal from someone because of the threat of a government striking them down. There will always be murders, incivillity and chaos. That's humanity. People creating governments just magnifies that as it institutionalizes stealing on a mass scale, and creates this myth of a monopoly on force creating peace and civility.

As far as the road thing you are just at a mental block (and one I've been at before). I live on a private street that is paid for with my rent money. People drive on toll highways. If you truly want to explore more options than the one that exists now where the same people that kill hundreds of thousands in war and cage millions for growing a plant have a forceful monopoly on roads I can refer you to some reading material.

I don't live in a pipe dream. I recognize people want to rule and people want to follow which is why there have always been governments and always will be governments. It's why we'll always have murderers and thieves. It doesn't mean I'm going to cheer for less painful murders or a thief who decides to only steal 2 of your TVs instead of 3.
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#47
Old 02-20-2011, 02:00 AM
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You completely ignored my Direct Democracy point - where the citizens themselves legislate and take votes on everything? How about them puppies?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Malone View Post
There is no civility and there is chaos now. Is what we have in the world considered civil? 99%+ of the people in the world don't decide to not kill or steal from someone because of the threat of a government striking them down. .
I knew you were gonna go down this road. But yet you ignored the fact that those who do commit a basic act of harming someone else, go to jail, get sentenced, and stay in jail. Who does this in your world of no Government at all?

Let me guess, now you're gonna tell me how many innocent people get sentenced, and how the guilty get off as part of you advocating for no Government period.

The 99% opinion is just that, your opinion. We don't know how many out of our 300 million U.S. populace are just afraid of killing or raping someone, because they know that they aren't smart enough to cover all their tracks and get away with it, with all the advanced ways (like DNA) they can get tracked down and caught. Not everybody is a suicidal maniac like that guy who shot the Congresswoman. Most actually care about getting away with it and staying free. A study just came out a few days ago again, that crime is significantly down on a year to year basis from past decades and continues to go down. I can find the study if you'd like. It didn't just happen because people became more civil.

Quote:
There will always be murders, incivillity and chaos. That's humanity. People creating governments just magnifies that as it institutionalizes stealing on a mass scale, and creates this myth of a monopoly on force creating peace and civility.
What?

You got a funny way of dodging bullets and rephrasing your opinion without addressing really anything.

There will always be murder therefore the better solution is to just let it go, and let people take matters into their own hands. You try to kill me, I'll kill you.

You rape my family member, I can't call the police to find you, I have to do it myself? Is that what you're telling me.....? Just tell me you're ok with this, and I'll let it go.





Quote:
As far as the road thing you are just at a mental block (and one I've been at before). I live on a private street that is paid for with my rent money. People drive on toll highways. If you truly want to explore more options than the one that exists now where the same people that kill hundreds of thousands in war and cage millions for growing a plant have a forceful monopoly on roads I can refer you to some reading material.
Uh huh, and how big is that street? Are you just driving in circles all day long.

Ever plan on using a street that takes you from your state to another? Who pays for that road? A private company?

Last edited by Cupo303; 02-20-2011 at 02:02 AM..
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#48
Old 02-20-2011, 02:37 AM
Kevin Malone
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I don't support voting. It's people hiding behind a ballot box to take from and control others. Why is that a good thing? People need to have the balls to do things publicly. Those who support passing a tax increase should be forced to go door to door to collect it from those who oppose it instead of hiding behind state instutitions.

I'm not here to debate you. If you have an open mind you will learn. I'm always learning and trying to look at my opinions and reconfigure how I look at the world. You can box yourself into your own opinions and what you want to think sometimes instead of trying to find out whats real. I'm guilty of it and you know you are. Seek truth.
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#49
Old 02-20-2011, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Malone View Post
I don't support voting. It's people hiding behind a ballot box to take from and control others. Why is that a good thing? People need to have the balls to do things publicly. Those who support passing a tax increase should be forced to go door to door to collect it from those who oppose it instead of hiding behind state instutitions.
That would take alot of work but it's an idea.

I have similarly proposed this when it comes to Abortion. Those who are morally opposed to this, regardless of the circumstance, should agree to take in every unwanted child in the U.S., raise them and fund their future like they would their own child.

Now those Abortion folks 9 times out of 10 are likely to be Right-Wing Christians who usually like to talk down to Welfare cases, who leech off of Government. Even though most of those unwanted children (with the occasional exception) are likely to end up Ghetto Welfare cases, the vary people they don't like.

Hence, my proposition. If you don't want Abortion, you agree to take care of the Child of the mother who wanted the Abortion, a mother who is probably not mentally or economically capable of raising her child right.

Now how many of these Anti-Abortion folks would agree to that?


Quote:
I'm not here to debate you. If you have an open mind you will learn. I'm always learning and trying to look at my opinions and reconfigure how I look at the world. You can box yourself into your own opinions and what you want to think sometimes instead of trying to find out whats real. I'm guilty of it and you know you are. Seek truth.
That's fine and I agree.

I seek truth all the time, and have adjusted my beliefs time and time again. Not because I'm some flip flopper, but because I'm young and still learning.

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Old 02-20-2011, 02:54 AM
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Useless thread. Lebensborn ftw.
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