Bernard Hopkins - time to fight or time to retire?

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  • !! Anorak
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    #1

    Bernard Hopkins - time to fight or time to retire?

    I'm no big fan of Bernard Hopkins. Granted, I'd never seen him in his earlier days when he used to wear a silly mask and apparently lived up to his nom de plume.

    But there's nothing worse than seeing a doddering granddad staggering around the ring, avoiding anything approaching a fight and selecting the weakest opponents with which to pump up his "20 defences" workrate. Granted, it's one way to get into the history books, but it saddens me that followers of the sport also buy into his "P4P" joke.

    To date his two most notable wins have been over blown-up Welterweights who had no business being in the division in the first place. In order to fight the winner of Dela Hoya/Sturm (yeah... because Sturm was ever likely to win that one in Vegas, right?) he matched up with an opponent he'd already faced twice, and beaten once (one NC). The Hopkins-Allen trilogy may be up there with Barrera-Morales and Ali-Frazier in terms of edge-of-your-seat excitement, but could Hopkins really justify that match?

    Most galling of all for me was the showing against Eastman. Granted, Eastman turned in a joyless, soulless and unimaginative performance, but while Hopkins was only too happy to offload on smaller guys, against the Hard Tumping Eastman Hopkins was arrested for hit and run. When you hear his fans describe it, you'd think it was a "hit and not get hit" sweet science masterclass by Ali himself. Instead it was a dismal display by someone desperate to get into the records by any means necessary... as long as those means didn't involve fighting.


    But what really galled me is reading in Boxing News his future plans before retiring. After Taylor (admittedly a risk), apparently the Hopkins camp planned for... rematches with Tito Trinidad and Glen Johnson.

    Granted, Johnson is a worthwhile opponent, and is currently the man at Light-Heavy. It would mean a step up in weight for Bernard to face a man with every reason to want to beat him: after all, Johnson acknowledges that while one or two of his defeats "could have gone either way", most of them were robberies, and out of his 9 losses/2 draws deficit, he claims that the Hopkins loss was the only one he considers legitimate.

    But it's still a man he's defeated. Since the news, Tito has famously retired (which takes away the match, if not the intent), which leaves questions asked.

    Okay, every boxer has to make money, but for his final two bow-out fights (after he's ran from Taylor to retain) Hopkins planned... two men he'd already beaten, one a much smaller guy.


    Hall of Fame? Hall of Bull****, more like.



    Last edited by Guest; 06-01-2005, 08:46 AM.
  • Bombardier
    D-Fens Foster
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    #2
    Why do none of the British posters here like Hopkins? Maybe not all of them but most. I mean, you'll hype up Eamon Magee but Hopkins is a fraud

    Seriously, did he piss on a Union Jack or something? What gives?

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    • !! Anorak
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      #3
      Originally posted by Bombardier
      Why do none of the British posters here like Hopkins? Maybe not all of them but most. I mean, you'll hype up Eamon Magee but Hopkins is a fraud

      Seriously, did he piss on a Union Jack or something? What gives?
      Why do all the US posters like him?

      Seriously though, extract the nationality angle away from it. When have you ever heard ME hype up Eamon Magee? Never? In that case you're making a generalisation, aren't you?

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      • Bombardier
        D-Fens Foster
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        #4
        As for Hopkins' style: consider his situation. The guy gets out of jail with no marketable skills except boxing. He's already getting to be quite old and has to somehow make a living off of this sport or else end up dead or back in jail like a lot of his former friends. He early managers take advantage of him and in his first fight he is in there to lose. So he has few friends inside or outside the sport.

        Hopkins' style has always been about survival. Do what you can to survive this fight and make it to your next one. If he didn't do that, he wouldn't be fighting at 40 the way he is now. If he brawled and took too many chances, he would have been out of the sport before he had a chance to raelly make money. Despite his successes, his big paydays have been few and far between. He still has to do what he has to do to make it to his next fight in order to cash in as much as he can in these last few months of his career.

        Even though you might not like his style, he built up a certain mentality early on that he's stuck with. Seeing as it has brought him success, why should he change it now?

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        • !! Anorak
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          #5
          See, this is what people always say. "He does what he has to to win and that's the important thing". But apart from the fact that if people don't like his style (and there were plenty of boos last time out), it's nothing to do with the honour of the sport and being a warrior and everything to do with getting himself a paypacket.

          Also, it's not black-and-white. Because I say I don't like him running, that doesn't mean I expect him to get into a Coralles war. But all I'm saying is there's a whole heap of difference between Ali, Lewis, Toney, etc. and what Hopkins did against Eastman. Look at the clip I linked to above... that bit where he runs and trips is pathetic. He doesn't use footwork, either - he RUNS.

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          • Martin (Top Knowledge)
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            #6
            Well it comes as absolutly no suprise that I DON'T LIKE Bernard Hopkins... LOL!...

            The easiest way to descibe it is in the UK we have "Man United syndrome", I'll explain...

            Everyone tells you that Manchester United are the BEST!... And they get loads of gift decsions, and referee's over look certain things they do, and punish others for doing the same etc... You get "Man Utd are amazing this, and Man Utd are amazing that!" And if they lose loads of excuses are made for them... After a while you get sick of it! And you start to question "WHY?" and it's then, when you look into them you find that they aren't that great at all...

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            • Bombardier
              D-Fens Foster
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              #7
              Originally posted by Anorak
              See, this is what people always say. "He does what he has to to win and that's the important thing". But apart from the fact that if people don't like his style (and there were plenty of boos last time out), it's nothing to do with the honour of the sport and being a warrior and everything to do with getting himself a paypacket.

              Also, it's not black-and-white. Because I say I don't like him running, that doesn't mean I expect him to get into a Coralles war. But all I'm saying is there's a whole heap of difference between Ali, Lewis, Toney, etc. and what Hopkins did against Eastman. Look at the clip I linked to above... that bit where he runs and trips is pathetic. He doesn't use footwork, either - he RUNS.
              Would you have even have noticed if the fight wasn't against a British boxer? Look, I'm not trying to turn this into a big thing or anything. But I noticed that after the Eastman loss a lot of the British posters here suddenly decided that the guy was worthless. I think that you're so offended that your boy lost that you're trying to discredit the guy who beat him.

              I'm not an American, I'm an objective observer here, and you cannot tell me that national loyalties aren't coming into play here.

              So Hopkins took a night off. So the hell what? Every great fighter has at one time. You think Ali was giving Patterson everything he had the first time they fought? Eastman was an easy opponent and Hopkins knew it. Sorry if he didn't show your fellow contryman any respect, but he didn't deserve any either.

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              • Martin (Top Knowledge)
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                #8
                That's a funny video Anorak!... LOL!...

                Did you make that?

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                • !! Anorak
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                  #9
                  Would you have even have noticed if the fight wasn't against a British boxer? Look, I'm not trying to turn this into a big thing or anything. But I noticed that after the Eastman loss a lot of the British posters here suddenly decided that the guy was worthless. I think that you're so offended that your boy lost that you're trying to discredit the guy who beat him.
                  I think you have a slight point in that secretly UK posters who like Eastman were pissed off at the lazy Nuff Tumper for not trying harder or coming up with something better on the night. But I already disliked Hopkins when I saw how average he was, and the calibre of opponents that were pushing him towards his p4p status.

                  So Hopkins took a night off. So the hell what? Every great fighter has at one time. You think Ali was giving Patterson everything he had the first time they fought? Eastman was an easy opponent and Hopkins knew it. Sorry if he didn't show your fellow contryman any respect, but he didn't deserve any either
                  Yeah, I concede the first point. (Though even Hopkins's nights on are hardly blistering affairs, are they?). Hopkins may have considered a win against the Nuff Tumper "easy" but it was clear that he had doubts as to whether he could take Eastman's shots... and Eastman could easily take his. Put little Dela Hoya in there and he'd be beating him up all night.

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                  • !! Anorak
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by martinwbc
                    That's a funny video Anorak!... LOL!...

                    Did you make that?
                    Cheers man! Yeah, I did. I was gonna do one about Ruiz set to that 60s tune "Hold Tight" with images of his constant clinches (and him getting KOed when he lets go) but... I couldn't be arsed.

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