Toney vs Hopkins.. better resume?

[tenPt]

I think Toney has the better resume.

[pturtle]

You need to take the losses and the consistency (or lack thereof) into account.

I do, Toney only has 7 losses and 74 wins, he was a 2 time fighter of the year, 3 division champ, seems he was just as dominant and constant as Hopkins to me, look at the fighters toney was fighting at middle compared to hopkins, toney would have went through all of Hopkins middle weight title defenses with out a loss, but would hopkins have beat Nunn, mccallum reggie johnson, maybe but those would have been competitive fights. Like i said before Hopkins has the bigger flashy names, toney has the more legit wins though. Guys at their best in their weight class. I know people love Hopkins but the only reason i can see people picking him over Toney is because he’s more popular these days, he has shaky losses as well.

[Light_Speed]

I do, Toney only has 7 losses and 74 wins, he was a 2 time fighter of the year, 3 division champ, seems he was just as dominant and constant as Hopkins to me, look at the fighters toney was fighting at middle compared to hopkins, toney would have went through all of Hopkins middle weight title defenses with out a loss, but would hopkins have beat Nunn, mccallum reggie johnson, maybe but those would have been competitive fights. Like i said before Hopkins has the bigger flashy names, toney has the more legit wins though. Guys at their best in their weight class. I know people love Hopkins but the only reason i can see people picking him over Toney is because he’s more popular these days, he has shaky losses as well.

Toney and consistent don't belong in the same sentence. He lost to Montell Griffin twice, Griffin was a good fighter but what did he accomplish in his career besides being competitive with Roy for a few rounds in the first fight? And there was the bad decision against Tiberi.

Oscar was just a name at 160 but Tito was legit at the weight, how many middleweights today would destroy Joppy like that? And wasn't Tito ranked #1 P4P at the time? This win + being the longest reigning middleweight champ + being the oldest man to win a world title > Toney's resume. And I love both fighters equally.

[boliodogs]

I vote Hopkins by far. Toney had to many out of shape fights in which he did not fight near his best. If Toney always fought at his proper weight in top condition like Hopkins it might have been different. Toney at his very best was possibly better than Hopkins but that Toney rarely showed up.

[IronDanHamza]

I do, Toney only has 7 losses and 74 wins, he was a 2 time fighter of the year, 3 division champ, seems he was just as dominant and constant as Hopkins to me, look at the fighters toney was fighting at middle compared to hopkins, toney would have went through all of Hopkins middle weight title defenses with out a loss, but would hopkins have beat Nunn, mccallum reggie johnson, maybe but those would have been competitive fights. Like i said before Hopkins has the bigger flashy names, toney has the more legit wins though. Guys at their best in their weight class. I know people love Hopkins but the only reason i can see people picking him over Toney is because he’s more popular these days, he has shaky losses as well.

This is a good point.

Toney would have easily gone though Hopkins MW resume undefeated and that includes Trinidad.

He also has a better win in McCallum than any win Hopkins has. This doesn't make him greater, but just throwing it out there.

That said, I'd say Hopkins personally.

[IronDanHamza]

Toney and consistent don't belong in the same sentence. He lost to Montell Griffin twice, Griffin was a good fighter but what did he accomplish in his career besides being competitive with Roy for a few rounds in the first fight? And there was the bad decision against Tiberi.

Oscar was just a name at 160 but Tito was legit at the weight, how many middleweights today would destroy Joppy like that? And wasn't Tito ranked #1 P4P at the time? This win + being the longest reigning middleweight champ + being the oldest man to win a world title > Toney's resume. And I love both fighters equally.

No, he wasn't.

But he was near the top of the P4P list.

[T.Horton]

No, he wasn't.

But he was near the top of the P4P list.

if memory serves, he was number two, right behind RJ.

[IronDanHamza]

if memory serves, he was number two, right behind RJ.

I think Mosley was #1 at that point.

Not sure though. Going off memory like yourself.

[T.Horton]

I think Mosley was #1 at that point.

Not sure though. Going off memory like yourself.

Oh yeah, you're right. It was Mosley, Jones, Tito.

edit: just did a quick search and somebody has posted ring mag p4p lists since 1980 or something.

Past Pound For Pound Lists
I want to collect a pound for pound list from every year since its introduction. If you guys have an old Ring Magazine lying around and can post the list up it'll definitely be a help and be appreciated. Hopefully, we can compile a list of Ring lists and pick either the first, mid, or last month list if we get more than one. A respected boxing writer's list will due and we'll choose which boxing writers list should stay if there's more than one. Those that don't state who made it are Ring lists. I'll start it off:

1980

KO Magazine (January)
1 - Roberto Duran
2 - Sugar Ray Leonard
3 - Wilfredo Gomez
4 - Danny Lopez
5 - Pipino Cuevas
6 - Alexis Arguello
7 - Larry Holmes
8 - Wilfred Benitez
9 - Vito Antuofermo/Matt Saad Muhammad (tie)


1981

KO Magazine (January)
1 - Thomas Hearns
2 - Sugar Ray Leonard
3 - Marvin Hagler
4 - Larry Holmes
5 - Alexis Arguello
6 - Wilfredo Gomez
7 - Eddie Mustafa Muhammad
8 - Matt Saad Muhammmad
9 - Wilfred Benitez
10 - Roberto Duran/Aaron Pryor (tie)

1982

KO Magazine
1. Sugar Ray Leonard
2. Alexis Arguello
3. Marvin Hagler
4. Salvador Sanchez
5. Wilfred Benitez
6. Larry Holmes
7. Jeff Chandler
8. Eusebio Pedroza
9. Aaron Pryor
10. Thomas Hearns/Dwight Braxton* (tie)

*Dwight Muhammad Qawi

1983

KO Magazine
1. Marvin Hagler
2. Aaron Pryor
3. Larry Holmes
4. Michael Spinks
5. Jeff Chandler
6. Thomas Hearns
7. Alexis Arguello
8. Wilfredo Gomez
9. Hector Camacho
10. Eusebio Pedroza

1984

KO Magazine
1. Marvin Hagler
2. Aaron Pryor
3. Larry Holmes
4. Eusebio Pedroza
5. Hector Camacho
6. Ray Leonard
6. Jeff Chandler
8. Michael Spinks
9. Thomas Hearns
10. Donald Curry

1985

KO Magazine
1. Marvin Hagler
2. Hector Camacho
3. Michael Spinks
4. Donald Curry
5. Thomas Hearns
6. Barry McGuigan
7. Milton McCrory
8. Julio Cesar Chavez
8. Pinklon Thomas
10. Larry Holmes

1986

KO Magazine
1. Marvin Hagler
2. Mike Tyson
3. Donald Curry
4. Thomas Hearns
5. Edwin Rosario
6. Azumah Nelson
6. Michael Spinks
8. Evander Holyfield
9. Julio Cesar Chavez
10. Hector Camacho

1988

KO Magazine
1. Mike Tyson
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. Evander Holyfield
4. Ray Leonard
5. Jeff Fenech
6. Michael Nunn
7. Azumah Nelson
8. Jung Koo Chang
9. Buddy McGirt
10. Sumbu Kalambay

1989

1. Mike Tyson
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. Pernell Whitaker
4. Michael Nunn
5. Antonio Esparragoza
6. Meldrick Taylor
7. Azumah Nelson
8. Raul Perez
9. Virgil Hill
10. Marlon Starling

1990

1. Julio Cesar Chavez
2. Pernell Whitaker
3. Michael Nunn
4. Antonio Esparragoza
5. Meldrick Taylor
6. Evander Holyfield
7. Mike Tyson
8. Raul Perez
9. Myung-Woo Yuh
10. Khaosai Galaxy

1992

1. Julio Cesar Chavez
2. Pernell Whitaker
3. Terry Norris
4. Orlando Canizales
5. James (Buddy) McGirt
6. Riddick Bowe
7. Azumah Nelson
8. Sung-Kil Moon
9. Julian Jackson
10. James Toney

1993

1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. James Toney
4. Michael Carbajal
5. Orlando Canizales
6. Evander Holyfield
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Roy Jones Jr.
9. Kennedy McKinney
10. Yuri Arbachakov

1994

1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Orlando Canizales
4. Ricardo Lopez
5. Humberto Gonzalez
6. Frankie Randall
7. Felix Trinidad
8. Gerald McClellan
9. Miguel Angel Gonzalez
10. Kevin Kelley

1995

1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Ricardo Lopez
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Felix Trinidad
6. Yuri Arbachakov
7. Kostya Tszyu
8. Riddick Bowe
9. Marco Antonio Barrera
10. Terry Norris

1996

1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Oscar De La Hoya
3. Pernell Whitaker
4. Felix Trinidad
5. Ricardo Lopez
6. Junior Jones
7. Kostya Tszyu
8. Terry Norris
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Mark Johnson

1997

KO Magazine
1. Oscar De La Hoya
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Felix Trinidad
4. Pernell Whitaker
5. Evander Holyfield
6. Terry Norris
7. Junior Jones
8. Ricardo Lopez
9. Ike Quartey
10. Mark Johnson

1998

1. Oscar De La Hoya
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Evander Holyfield
4. Felix Trinidad
5. Mark Johnson
6. Shane Mosley
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
9. Naseem Hamed
10. Johnny Tapia

1999

1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Felix Trinidad
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Shane Mosley
6. Mark Johnson
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Erik Morales
9. Bernard Hopkins
10. Stevie Johnston

2000

1. Shane Mosley
2. Felix Trinidad
3. Roy Jones Jr.
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Diego Corrales
6. Naseem Hamed
7. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
8. Lennox Lewis
9. Erik Morales
10. Bernard Hopkins

2001

1. Shane Mosley
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Roy Jones Jr.
4. Marco Antonio Barrera
5. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
6. Felix Trinidad
7. Oscar De La Hoya
8. Ricardo Lopez
9. Kostya Tszyu
10. Erik Morales

2002

1. Bernard Hopkins
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Marco Antonio Barrera
4. Vernon Forrest
5. Oscar De La Hoya
6. Kostya Tszyu
7. Erik Morales
8. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Shane Mosley

2003

1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Shane Mosley
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
6. Manny Pacquiao
7. Kostya Tszyu
8. Erik Morales
9. James Toney
10. Antonio Tarver

2004

1. Bernard Hopkins
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Kostya Tszyu
4. Ronald (Winky) Wright
5. Manny Pacquiao
6. Juan Manuel Marquez
7. Marco Antonio Barrera
8. Erik Morales
9. Glen Johnson
10. Antonio Tarver

2005

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2. Ronald (Winky) Wright
3. Marco Antonio Barrera
4. Ricky Hatton
5. Manny Pacquiao
6. Erik Morales
7. Juan Manuel Marquez
8. Rafael Marquez
9. Jose Luis Castillo
10. Zab Judah

2006

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Ronald (Winky) Wright
4. Jermain Taylor
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Marco Antonio Barrera
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Ricky Hatton
9. Jose Luis Castillo
10. Joe Calzaghe

2007

Doug Fischer - Maxboxing.com
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Joe Calzaghe
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Israel Vazquez/Rafael Marquez
8. Miguel Cotto
9. Ivan Calderon
10. Winky Wright

2008

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Joe Calzaghe
4. Bernard Hopkins
5. Israel Vazquez
6. Antonio Margarito
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Miguel Cotto
9. Ivan Calderon
10. Ricky Hatton

[T.Horton]

I love looking at these lists. Look at how dominant Hagler was and look at the list of names he outlasted. For you noobs, this is a good way to get a feel for what the atmosphere (atmosphere feels like the wrong word) of the sport might have been like.