I think Toney has the better resume.
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Toney vs Hopkins.. better resume?
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Originally posted by Light_Speed View PostYou need to take the losses and the consistency (or lack thereof) into account.
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Originally posted by pturtle View PostI do, Toney only has 7 losses and 74 wins, he was a 2 time fighter of the year, 3 division champ, seems he was just as dominant and constant as Hopkins to me, look at the fighters toney was fighting at middle compared to hopkins, toney would have went through all of Hopkins middle weight title defenses with out a loss, but would hopkins have beat Nunn, mccallum reggie johnson, maybe but those would have been competitive fights. Like i said before Hopkins has the bigger flashy names, toney has the more legit wins though. Guys at their best in their weight class. I know people love Hopkins but the only reason i can see people picking him over Toney is because he’s more popular these days, he has shaky losses as well.
Oscar was just a name at 160 but Tito was legit at the weight, how many middleweights today would destroy Joppy like that? And wasn't Tito ranked #1 P4P at the time? This win + being the longest reigning middleweight champ + being the oldest man to win a world title > Toney's resume. And I love both fighters equally.
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I vote Hopkins by far. Toney had to many out of shape fights in which he did not fight near his best. If Toney always fought at his proper weight in top condition like Hopkins it might have been different. Toney at his very best was possibly better than Hopkins but that Toney rarely showed up.
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Originally posted by pturtle View PostI do, Toney only has 7 losses and 74 wins, he was a 2 time fighter of the year, 3 division champ, seems he was just as dominant and constant as Hopkins to me, look at the fighters toney was fighting at middle compared to hopkins, toney would have went through all of Hopkins middle weight title defenses with out a loss, but would hopkins have beat Nunn, mccallum reggie johnson, maybe but those would have been competitive fights. Like i said before Hopkins has the bigger flashy names, toney has the more legit wins though. Guys at their best in their weight class. I know people love Hopkins but the only reason i can see people picking him over Toney is because he’s more popular these days, he has shaky losses as well.
Toney would have easily gone though Hopkins MW resume undefeated and that includes Trinidad.
He also has a better win in McCallum than any win Hopkins has. This doesn't make him greater, but just throwing it out there.
That said, I'd say Hopkins personally.
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Originally posted by Light_Speed View PostToney and consistent don't belong in the same sentence. He lost to Montell Griffin twice, Griffin was a good fighter but what did he accomplish in his career besides being competitive with Roy for a few rounds in the first fight? And there was the bad decision against Tiberi.
Oscar was just a name at 160 but Tito was legit at the weight, how many middleweights today would destroy Joppy like that? And wasn't Tito ranked #1 P4P at the time? This win + being the longest reigning middleweight champ + being the oldest man to win a world title > Toney's resume. And I love both fighters equally.
But he was near the top of the P4P list.
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Originally posted by IronDanHamza View PostI think Mosley was #1 at that point.
Not sure though. Going off memory like yourself.
edit: just did a quick search and somebody has posted ring mag p4p lists since 1980 or something.
Past Pound For Pound Lists
I want to collect a pound for pound list from every year since its introduction. If you guys have an old Ring Magazine lying around and can post the list up it'll definitely be a help and be appreciated. Hopefully, we can compile a list of Ring lists and pick either the first, mid, or last month list if we get more than one. A respected boxing writer's list will due and we'll choose which boxing writers list should stay if there's more than one. Those that don't state who made it are Ring lists. I'll start it off:
1980
KO Magazine (January)
1 - Roberto Duran
2 - Sugar Ray Leonard
3 - Wilfredo Gomez
4 - Danny Lopez
5 - Pipino Cuevas
6 - Alexis Arguello
7 - Larry Holmes
8 - Wilfred Benitez
9 - Vito Antuofermo/Matt Saad Muhammad (tie)
1981
KO Magazine (January)
1 - Thomas Hearns
2 - Sugar Ray Leonard
3 - Marvin Hagler
4 - Larry Holmes
5 - Alexis Arguello
6 - Wilfredo Gomez
7 - Eddie Mustafa Muhammad
8 - Matt Saad Muhammmad
9 - Wilfred Benitez
10 - Roberto Duran/Aaron Pryor (tie)
1982
KO Magazine
1. Sugar Ray Leonard
2. Alexis Arguello
3. Marvin Hagler
4. Salvador Sanchez
5. Wilfred Benitez
6. Larry Holmes
7. Jeff Chandler
8. Eusebio Pedroza
9. Aaron Pryor
10. Thomas Hearns/Dwight Braxton* (tie)
*Dwight Muhammad Qawi
1983
KO Magazine
1. Marvin Hagler
2. Aaron Pryor
3. Larry Holmes
4. Michael Spinks
5. Jeff Chandler
6. Thomas Hearns
7. Alexis Arguello
8. Wilfredo Gomez
9. Hector Camacho
10. Eusebio Pedroza
1984
KO Magazine
1. Marvin Hagler
2. Aaron Pryor
3. Larry Holmes
4. Eusebio Pedroza
5. Hector Camacho
6. Ray Leonard
6. Jeff Chandler
8. Michael Spinks
9. Thomas Hearns
10. Donald Curry
1985
KO Magazine
1. Marvin Hagler
2. Hector Camacho
3. Michael Spinks
4. Donald Curry
5. Thomas Hearns
6. Barry McGuigan
7. Milton McCrory
8. Julio Cesar Chavez
8. Pinklon Thomas
10. Larry Holmes
1986
KO Magazine
1. Marvin Hagler
2. Mike Tyson
3. Donald Curry
4. Thomas Hearns
5. Edwin Rosario
6. Azumah Nelson
6. Michael Spinks
8. Evander Holyfield
9. Julio Cesar Chavez
10. Hector Camacho
1988
KO Magazine
1. Mike Tyson
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. Evander Holyfield
4. Ray Leonard
5. Jeff Fenech
6. Michael Nunn
7. Azumah Nelson
8. Jung Koo Chang
9. Buddy McGirt
10. Sumbu Kalambay
1989
1. Mike Tyson
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. Pernell Whitaker
4. Michael Nunn
5. Antonio Esparragoza
6. Meldrick Taylor
7. Azumah Nelson
8. Raul Perez
9. Virgil Hill
10. Marlon Starling
1990
1. Julio Cesar Chavez
2. Pernell Whitaker
3. Michael Nunn
4. Antonio Esparragoza
5. Meldrick Taylor
6. Evander Holyfield
7. Mike Tyson
8. Raul Perez
9. Myung-Woo Yuh
10. Khaosai Galaxy
1992
1. Julio Cesar Chavez
2. Pernell Whitaker
3. Terry Norris
4. Orlando Canizales
5. James (Buddy) McGirt
6. Riddick Bowe
7. Azumah Nelson
8. Sung-Kil Moon
9. Julian Jackson
10. James Toney
1993
1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. James Toney
4. Michael Carbajal
5. Orlando Canizales
6. Evander Holyfield
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Roy Jones Jr.
9. Kennedy McKinney
10. Yuri Arbachakov
1994
1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Orlando Canizales
4. Ricardo Lopez
5. Humberto Gonzalez
6. Frankie Randall
7. Felix Trinidad
8. Gerald McClellan
9. Miguel Angel Gonzalez
10. Kevin Kelley
1995
1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Ricardo Lopez
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Felix Trinidad
6. Yuri Arbachakov
7. Kostya Tszyu
8. Riddick Bowe
9. Marco Antonio Barrera
10. Terry Norris
1996
1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Oscar De La Hoya
3. Pernell Whitaker
4. Felix Trinidad
5. Ricardo Lopez
6. Junior Jones
7. Kostya Tszyu
8. Terry Norris
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Mark Johnson
1997
KO Magazine
1. Oscar De La Hoya
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Felix Trinidad
4. Pernell Whitaker
5. Evander Holyfield
6. Terry Norris
7. Junior Jones
8. Ricardo Lopez
9. Ike Quartey
10. Mark Johnson
1998
1. Oscar De La Hoya
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Evander Holyfield
4. Felix Trinidad
5. Mark Johnson
6. Shane Mosley
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
9. Naseem Hamed
10. Johnny Tapia
1999
1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Felix Trinidad
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Shane Mosley
6. Mark Johnson
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Erik Morales
9. Bernard Hopkins
10. Stevie Johnston
2000
1. Shane Mosley
2. Felix Trinidad
3. Roy Jones Jr.
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Diego Corrales
6. Naseem Hamed
7. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
8. Lennox Lewis
9. Erik Morales
10. Bernard Hopkins
2001
1. Shane Mosley
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Roy Jones Jr.
4. Marco Antonio Barrera
5. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
6. Felix Trinidad
7. Oscar De La Hoya
8. Ricardo Lopez
9. Kostya Tszyu
10. Erik Morales
2002
1. Bernard Hopkins
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Marco Antonio Barrera
4. Vernon Forrest
5. Oscar De La Hoya
6. Kostya Tszyu
7. Erik Morales
8. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Shane Mosley
2003
1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Shane Mosley
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
6. Manny Pacquiao
7. Kostya Tszyu
8. Erik Morales
9. James Toney
10. Antonio Tarver
2004
1. Bernard Hopkins
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Kostya Tszyu
4. Ronald (Winky) Wright
5. Manny Pacquiao
6. Juan Manuel Marquez
7. Marco Antonio Barrera
8. Erik Morales
9. Glen Johnson
10. Antonio Tarver
2005
1. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2. Ronald (Winky) Wright
3. Marco Antonio Barrera
4. Ricky Hatton
5. Manny Pacquiao
6. Erik Morales
7. Juan Manuel Marquez
8. Rafael Marquez
9. Jose Luis Castillo
10. Zab Judah
2006
1. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Ronald (Winky) Wright
4. Jermain Taylor
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Marco Antonio Barrera
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Ricky Hatton
9. Jose Luis Castillo
10. Joe Calzaghe
2007
Doug Fischer - Maxboxing.com
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Joe Calzaghe
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Israel Vazquez/Rafael Marquez
8. Miguel Cotto
9. Ivan Calderon
10. Winky Wright
2008
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Joe Calzaghe
4. Bernard Hopkins
5. Israel Vazquez
6. Antonio Margarito
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Miguel Cotto
9. Ivan Calderon
10. Ricky Hatton
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I love looking at these lists. Look at how dominant Hagler was and look at the list of names he outlasted. For you noobs, this is a good way to get a feel for what the atmosphere (atmosphere feels like the wrong word) of the sport might have been like.
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