Is Greb Greater Than Duran?

[Sugarj]

I think some claimed that there was a film of him till 1970's...don't know.
The walker fight was filmed as was the Tunney fight...most likely the fight with Tommy Gibbons...

The fights would have been great to watch...nothing of Rosenbloom survived too, considering the number of fights he was in and his length of activity, also later than Greb...it seems preposterous there is no film of the man.

Yes Slapsy Maxie doesn't exist on film, or Tiger Flowers according to the sources I've looked at. Strangely, I've read plenty of quotes from Jimmy Jacobs saying that the only fighter he didn't have on film was Greb. That would indicate to me that Big Fights Inc have something of Rosembloom or Flowers........I'd doubt that those two would slip Jacob's mind!!!

Although a bit of extra reading has revealed that two of the Greb vs Flowers fights were filmed........but they haven't shown up yet.

[Sugarj]

Jimmy Jacobs is a goddamned fiend. Not only did he hoard all those classic fights, many of which have never been seen, but he refused to let them be seen by anyone and had them all insured and vaulted, then he sold them to ESPN I believe for some huge, hideous amount and they still haven't been released.

What's the point of film if it's not going to become public history and be used to show what was? I really dislike that attitude that the public or whatever are not deserving, which so many historians and collectors have.

So many, Jacobs being a major case, hoard massive amounts of truly historic, classic film and don't allow any viewing for their own ego and later financial reward and most of the time it just gets passed on to the next hoarder until one day it finally disappears. Rather than allow such important pieces of history to study and research and viewing by the public they become nothing more than possibles and figments no clearer than what we are able to make from newspaper accounts and memory. The fact that so much could be made clear to history, but for one mans ego and greed, is incredibly disappointing, yet very typical and human nature. More and more history is being overlooked or even destroyed and ignored for immediate gain and greed. Very sad.

Yes very sad!

I always had time for Jimmy Jacobs though, he seemed to be a guy who genuinely loved the sport and the boxers themselves. For what it is worth, his life was cut too short for him to benefit from the ESPN deal......surely that happened after his death?

For what its worth a lot of classic fights, clipped or in full appeared in 80s videos/documentaries. So it wasn't as though they were being held in a 'Disney' like vault. After finding out how delicate the films are, I can understand him not wanting to lend them out to every Tom, Dick and Harry who wanted to produce a documentary.

Without the intervention of Jimmy Jacobs, I'm not entirely sure that as many of the classic fights would have survived as there have.

[Kid McCoy]

Yes very sad!

I always had time for Jimmy Jacobs though, he seemed to be a guy who genuinely loved the sport and the boxers themselves. For what it is worth, his life was cut too short for him to benefit from the ESPN deal......surely that happened after his death?

It was Bill Cayton who sold the collection to ESPN years after Jacobs' death.

[BennyST]

The Jimmy Jacobs collection has such legendary status that some are willing to believe almost every famous fight in history is in their possession. I doubt he had any of Greb's fights. Regarding his comments, bear in mind that Jacobs was a bit of a wind up merchant and enjoyed teasing people about what fights he had. When someone came into his office he'd have a blank reel labeled 'Langford vs Ketchel' sitting on the desk just to see the look on their face.



But look at it from their point of view. If you'd spent thousands on a collection of rare fights, not to mention dedicated years of your life to it, would you then just put them all on Youtube?

Imagine that! Suddenly all of the old classics turn up on youtube.

Of course not though. I don't mean just giving them away anywhere. Yes, they've spent a lot of time and money chasing these but as so often happens, to hide them away and keep them locked up is just so pointless.

I understand it, as it's what they do. They collect, hence 'collectors'. I just don't like it.

[Barn]

Imagine that! Suddenly all of the old classics turn up on youtube.

Of course not though. I don't mean just giving them away anywhere. Yes, they've spent a lot of time and money chasing these but as so often happens, to hide them away and keep them locked up is just so pointless.

I understand it, as it's what they do. They collect, hence 'collectors'. I just don't like it.

They could even add their own watermark ie: The Langford vs Jeanette film type thing that is practically unremovable if they really wanted to. I'm with you that I think it's weird people wouldn't share their footage with the rest of the community.

[Kid McCoy]

Well think of it this way. Say ESPN own the only known copy of Greb-Tunney. Because of its rarity and its sought-after status, it's a valuable commodity and an asset to the company. Bear in mind that even though ESPN own the footage, they probably don't own the copyright.

If they broadcast it on ESPN Classic then the chances are that a lot of their viewers will make their own copies. Within days it'll be on Youtube and Megaupload and suddenly ESPN's rare, sought-after commodity has lost all its value because half the boxing fans in the world now have their own copy. And as ESPN don't own the copyright, they won't be able to do a thing about it. If they do the same with all their rare footage then very quickly their $100m asset (what they paid Cayton for the collection) will be worthless.

It's the same principal for an individual collector. If you have a rare fight you can trade it with another collector who has another equally rare film. If you post all your stuff on Youtube then you have nothing to bargain with. A collector isn't going to trade you his copy of Robinson-Gavilan for a fight he can find on the internet for nothing. It's pretty crappy for the rest of us but from a business perspective you can understand the logic.