Can you make a legitimate claim that Jay-Z is the GOAT?

[Truth]

I could write an essay on why jay should atleast be in consideration as the G.O.A.T. but i'm too lazy to do it...lol

[Nick Fury]

I'm a fan, I just think there are greater artists than him. I base GOAT status on mainly 2 things: 1.lyrical ability & 2. Body of work. Jay has a great body of work, but falls far too short lyrically (aside from being really good at claiming to be great so frequently that people start believing it) to be considered greater than the likes of Nas, Rakim, Scarface, LL Cool J and the like, add KRS-ONE, Masta Ace, Q-Tip........

Really? You think he falls short lyrically?







His verse on the Go Crazy remix was ridiculous...

[Truth]

Jay didnt get the nick name the "monster of the double entendre" for nothing. hov get it in lyrically...

[Truth]

Godzhand, i respect you saying pac, nas, krs etc. are better than hov...but q-tip and masta ace? i mean c'mon now. but then again you just go by lyrics and body of work. but how the hell does q-tip have a better body of work that hov?

[MegStarr*]

Jay-Z could be considered the greatest rapper of all time.
i have actually been putting a lot of thought into this because upon intially responding to this thread i found myself saying a bunch of **** that wasn't really legit...it was just really biased.
i think that what it comes down to for me is that i do not want to give the title of Greatest Rapper of All Time to someone who has, at times, been a bit of a sell out. and that's how i feel about some of Hov's more recent material. i love Reasonable Doubt and The Blueprint. I love Reasonable doubt because it's just so damn lyrical, and i love the Blueprint because it is so damn catchy without being too commercial. reading through the thread someone had mentioned that Jay-Z has been able to bridge the mainstream with the underground better than any other rapper, and I agree with that completely. that bridge is hugely significant.
back to the sell-out bit though...it really disappoints me when rappers are lazy. it really disappoints me when rappers talk about absolutely nothing for an entire verse. and most of all it disappoints me when rappers are rapping just to rap. i feel like Jay-Z has reached the point in which he is rapping just to rap. there is very little SUBSTANCE behind his rhymes anymore. a while back i believe it was Truth or Gold Mac who said that "maybe he just doesn't have anything to say anymore". i believe this to be true. now a days you give Hov a topic or a cause and he will spit some fire, but apart from that seems to be very bland to me. one of the only good tracks off of Kingdom Come was Minority Report, and i think that the reason behind that was because he took a legitimate topic and went with it, similar to Lost Ones, where he was actually speaking on something specific. too often i hear Jay-Z just spitting about how he's the best or how 30 is the new 20 and blah blah blah. you don't need to big yourself up. people get caught up in it. if you want 30 to be the new 20 then you show me why you're still great. don't just tell me about it.
he needs to give his underground fans a little more love through tracks that are not catered to the mainstream. because of his clothing line and such i feel like he is catering to his commercial audience and ignoring his underground audience who just wants to hear some Reasonable Doubt!! give me some I Can't Get With That! and if you can't anymore then you aren't the GOAT.
ps im a bit bitter about that verse of his on that new radio track. it's terrible.
he's not my GOAT but there is legitimacy in someone claiming him to be.

[Kobe Bryant]

Jay-Z could be considered the greatest rapper of all time.
i have actually been putting a lot of thought into this because upon intially responding to this thread i found myself saying a bunch of **** that wasn't really legit...it was just really biased.
i think that what it comes down to for me is that i do not want to give the title of Greatest Rapper of All Time to someone who has, at times, been a bit of a sell out. and that's how i feel about some of Hov's more recent material. i love Reasonable Doubt and The Blueprint. I love Reasonable doubt because it's just so damn lyrical, and i love the Blueprint because it is so damn catchy without being too commercial. reading through the thread someone had mentioned that Jay-Z has been able to bridge the mainstream with the underground better than any other rapper, and I agree with that completely. that bridge is hugely significant.
back to the sell-out bit though...it really disappoints me when rappers are lazy. it really disappoints me when rappers talk about absolutely nothing for an entire verse. and most of all it disappoints me when rappers are rapping just to rap. i feel like Jay-Z has reached the point in which he is rapping just to rap. there is very little SUBSTANCE behind his rhymes anymore. a while back i believe it was Truth or Gold Mac who said that "maybe he just doesn't have anything to say anymore". i believe this to be true. now a days you give Hov a topic or a cause and he will spit some fire, but apart from that seems to be very bland to me. one of the only good tracks off of Kingdom Come was Minority Report, and i think that the reason behind that was because he took a legitimate topic and went with it, similar to Lost Ones, where he was actually speaking on something specific. too often i hear Jay-Z just spitting about how he's the best or how 30 is the new 20 and blah blah blah. you don't need to big yourself up. people get caught up in it. if you want 30 to be the new 20 then you show me why you're still great. don't just tell me about it.
he needs to give his underground fans a little more love through tracks that are not catered to the mainstream. because of his clothing line and such i feel like he is catering to his commercial audience and ignoring his underground audience who just wants to hear some Reasonable Doubt!! give me some I Can't Get With That! and if you can't anymore then you aren't the GOAT.
ps im a bit bitter about that verse of his on that new radio track. it's terrible.
he's not my GOAT but there is legitimacy in someone claiming him to be.

Good post meg. I respect your opinion and you stated it pretty clearly. Jay has substance but I could see how his braggish type rhymes could turn some away. Its an interesting point because it is a business and Jay ahs to balance out living up to some of his mainstream fans. I agree that its good to speak about a strong subject. Like Nas last two albums have had a theme and he's done a real good job with it.

But Jay isn't that type of rapper, he can be. But he's just not gonna give you some of the depth of a Common or Kweli. He's gives you that slick talk and nice flow.

[Truth]

i love meg....pause...wait shes a girl. lol

[MegStarr*]

Good post meg. I respect your opinion and you stated it pretty clearly. Jay has substance but I could see how his braggish type rhymes could turn some away. Its an interesting point because it is a business and Jay ahs to balance out living up to some of his mainstream fans. I agree that its good to speak about a strong subject. Like Nas last two albums have had a theme and he's done a real good job with it.

But Jay isn't that type of rapper, he can be. But he's just not gonna give you some of the depth of a Common or Kweli. He's gives you that slick talk and nice flow.

thank you. and it's not even that i want Hov to speak on some really hardcore topic everytime, its just that he seems to do better when that's what he's doing because then at least he is talking about SOMETHING. sometimes i find, especially with his more mainstream tracks, that he will spit a whole verse without saying a damn thing. he will dance lightly over a bunch of really fluffy subject matter and at the end of the verse im just like, what the **** did he just say? at least when MCs rap about weapons and pushing heroin they are on topic.
you're right though. it really is not his style. i think its just disappointing because i know he is capable of greatness, and recently he has just been a huge letdown in my mind.

[Truth]

thank you. and it's not even that i want Hov to speak on some really hardcore topic everytime, its just that he seems to do better when that's what he's doing because then at least he is talking about SOMETHING. sometimes i find, especially with his more mainstream tracks, that he will spit a whole verse without saying a damn thing. he will dance lightly over a bunch of really fluffy subject matter and at the end of the verse im just like, what the **** did he just say? at least when MCs rap about weapons and pushing heroin they are on topic.
you're right though. it really is not his style. i think its just disappointing because i know he is capable of greatness, and recently he has just been a huge letdown in my mind.

blueprint 3 is a dope album. he talks how people said he wouldn't be anything, but how he didnt beleive them. theres also a song where he pays respects to other rappers....great album