Is Wladamir Klitschko A ATG Heavyweight?

[Steak]

he will probably be top ten by the end of his career.

granted, his era is one of the worst ever. it makes me cringe sometimes when I see his opponents. but, he has consistantly beaten a high number of them, and has around 11 wins over top opposition by now, which is actually more than a number of ATG heavyweights.(although, again, its a bad era).

add that in with his dominance and yeah, I dont think its a stretch to make him top ten. well, once his career is done.

Many people consider Larry Holmes an ATG and his era was trashed just as much as Wlad's.

Wladimir is definitely an ATG.

Holmes' era wasnt actually that terrible. they were inconsistant sometimes, but they could still show up to be quality fighters. Holmes had a number of wins over good fighters, like Norton, Shaversx2, Cooney, Snipes, Weaver, Witherspoon, and schooled Mercer in his 40s. Reality is Holmes beat more top opposition than Wladimir has(so far) and proved his quality when he was past prime and old, although Holmes career isnt without reproach either.

[The Surgeon]

he will probably be top ten by the end of his career.

granted, his era is one of the worst ever. it makes me cringe sometimes when I see his opponents. but, he has consistantly beaten a high number of them, and has around 11 wins over top opposition by now, which is actually more than a number of ATG heavyweights.(although, again, its a bad era).

add that in with his dominance and yeah, I dont think its a stretch to make him top ten. well, once his career is done.

Holmes' era wasnt actually that terrible. they were inconsistant sometimes, but they could still show up to be quality fighters. Holmes had a number of wins over good fighters, like Norton, Shaversx2, Cooney, Snipes, Weaver, Witherspoon, and schooled Mercer in his 40s. Reality is Holmes beat more top opposition than Wladimir has(so far) and proved his quality when he was past prime and old, although Holmes career isnt without reproach either.

I feel a top 10 spot is madness

When outright bums like Purrity and Sanders have KO'D him, his wins are all against no hopers, he admitted as much that Haye was his biggest and defining fight - Haye a man with what 4? HW Fights under his belt.

Wlad has dominated this weak era but im of the opinion that had his brother and him fought he'd have been KO'd again, or if he'd have gotten his shot at an old Lewis the same result would have happened there too. Vitali is the best fighter of the era, Wlad the most dominant - but only coz Vit wont fight him.

Crap chin, Crap engine, Crap work rate, Crap variety and easily flustered.

Thats very harsh i know, he is a fighter thats hard to beat but in my eyes the ATG's would have had nothing to worry about in W.Klitchko

[Steak]

I feel a top 10 spot is madness

When outright bums like Purrity and Sanders have KO'D him, his wins are all against no hopers, he admitted as much that Haye was his biggest and defining fight - Haye a man with what 4? HW Fights under his belt.

Wlad has dominated this weak era but im of the opinion that had his brother and him fought he'd have been KO'd again, or if he'd have gotten his shot at an old Lewis the same result would have happened there too. Vitali is the best fighter of the era, Wlad the most dominant - but only coz Vit wont fight him.

Crap chin, Crap engine, Crap work rate, Crap variety and easily flustered.

Thats very harsh i know, he is a fighter thats hard to beat but in my eyes the ATG's would have had nothing to worry about in W.Klitchko

I dont care if he has early losses, hes very obviously gotten better since then. and Sanders is not a bum, hes one of the most explosive southpaw heavyweights of all time.(although thats not exactly a deep catagory, lol...). Pacquiao has been KOed by guys just as bad or worse, I dont really care. hes more than made up for it later on.

I dont believe that vitali would beat Wladimir at all. Wladimir is faster, more skilled and hits harder. even Vitali said Wladimir would beat him. Vitali is too big a target, and Vitali's only real defense is straight up moving his head back. not even side to side. Wladimir's quicker straight punches could score without trouble on Vitali.

most of what you say about him is true, but in the end his jab and right hand are both some of the best in heavyweight history, and his left hook has a lot of power behind it, although he rarely uses it. He doesnt have a lot of variety, but what he does do he does damn well. his lack of variety wouldnt cut it against certain ATG heavyweights, but Im not saying Wladimir would beat them anyway. and even with his flaws, his range and power combined with a surprising amount of quickness for a man his size is still enough to make up for it.

Wladimir would fall to a number of pressure fighters or guys that attacked him. he jsut cant counter well, honestly. but he would give boxers hell.

please name me the 10+ guys you would put above him. oh, by the way, when I say top ten I mean he will possibly be #10 by the end of his career.

[Vadrigar.]

No. Sorry dudes, but fighters don't get graded on a curve. You don't get your C grade turned into an A just because everyone else got an F.

Poet

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3

Poet, I don't know whether to laugh or cry........

[The Surgeon]

I dont care if he has early losses, hes very obviously gotten better since then. and Sanders is not a bum, hes one of the most explosive southpaw heavyweights of all time.(although thats not exactly a deep catagory, lol...). Pacquiao has been KOed by guys just as bad or worse, I dont really care. hes more than made up for it later on.

I dont believe that vitali would beat Wladimir at all. Wladimir is faster, more skilled and hits harder. even Vitali said Wladimir would beat him. Vitali is too big a target, and Vitali's only real defense is straight up moving his head back. not even side to side. Wladimir's quicker straight punches could score without trouble on Vitali.

most of what you say about him is true, but in the end his jab and right hand are both some of the best in heavyweight history, and his left hook has a lot of power behind it, although he rarely uses it. He doesnt have a lot of variety, but what he does do he does damn well. his lack of variety wouldnt cut it against certain ATG heavyweights, but Im not saying Wladimir would beat them anyway. and even with his flaws, his range and power combined with a surprising amount of quickness for a man his size is still enough to make up for it.

Wladimir would fall to a number of pressure fighters or guys that attacked him. he jsut cant counter well, honestly. but he would give boxers hell.

please name me the 10+ guys you would put above him. oh, by the way, when I say top ten I mean he will possibly be #10 by the end of his career.

First off steak i want u to understand i respect u as a poster, ur one of the best on the board but i cant get down with Wlad in a top 10 man. He has gotten better (And more boring!) i'll give u that but all the problems he had he still has. I cant rate Corrie as anything other than an average fighter with a big punch, he's just garbage imo. And even he was like 38 and fat. Good points about recovering from losses and Pacquaio's early losses dont hurt him at all imo
Except when Wlad lost to Sanders who it was in his 42nd fight and 7th WBO title fight, Brewster smashed him in his 45th fight too so its not like the were early on.

Ur the first person ive heard pick Wlad over Vitali, the size would be a problem for both but while Wlad has more pop Vitali's chin MORE than makes up for that - if they trade its over for Baby bro...

I think Vitali walks him down and knocks him out.

[StarshipTrooper]

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3

Poet, I don't know whether to laugh or cry........

Typical and not unexpected. Slimshandy, you must remember, rates fighters based on their pigmentation: The whiter they are the greater they are in his eyes.

Poet

[hent]

Holmes has Ken Norton and Ernie Shavers on his resume, which is a big reason we know he was an ATG heavyweight. Wlad desperately needs a name like that, but none are around.

Wlad has Chagaev and Ibragimov.

[StarshipTrooper]

Wlad has Chagaev and Ibragimov.

Who happen to be ****e Eurofrauds.

[Steak]

First off steak i want u to understand i respect u as a poster, ur one of the best on the board but i cant get down with Wlad in a top 10 man. He has gotten better (And more boring!) i'll give u that but all the problems he had he still has. I cant rate Corrie as anything other than an average fighter with a big punch, he's just garbage imo. And even he was like 38 and fat. Good points about recovering from losses and Pacquaio's early losses dont hurt him at all imo
Except when Wlad lost to Sanders who it was in his 42nd fight and 7th WBO title fight, Brewster smashed him in his 45th fight too so its not like the were early on.

Ur the first person ive heard pick Wlad over Vitali, the size would be a problem for both but while Wlad has more pop Vitali's chin MORE than makes up for that - if they trade its over for Baby bro...

I think Vitali walks him down and knocks him out.

irrelevant to me. A fighter can get better or worse at any point in their career. Its very clear that Wladimir has gotten harder to hit and more controlled since both the Sander and Brewster fights, although Im not goign to say his chin is any better.

And I dont expect Vitali and wlad to trade. Vitali's range is completely different than Wlads, and his power usually comes from leaning down into his punches, since he has a shorter reach. Wlads punches arethe kind that sort of 'push' you back, and Vitali would run into Wlad's harder and quicker straight shots while he was trying to throw, diffusing the power. Vitali to me doesnt hit nearly as hard as his KO% indicates, he more of accumulation puncher that keeps tapping you until you fold. Wladimir would get his punches off first and quicker, and that always slows someones offense unless they can counter or are fine landing simulataneous shots...neither of which vitali really does, since when he sees a punch coming all he does is lean back. This is also a rare scenario where Wlads left hook might come into play, since a left hook works particularly well when someone decides that leaning back is their main defense. and that left hook is heavy.

also Wladimir has dealt with a number of large men...Thompson, Austin, and McCline in particular. Off the top of my head, the only guy Vitali faced that was as naturally large as Wladimir was an overweight old Lewis, and that was a loss.(albeit a close one)

[hent]

Who happen to be ****e Eurofrauds.

Shavers isnt much better, if at all better than them.