Nothing special about the FAB FOUR, Controversy is what made them great.

[billionaire]

dont really care about hagler, but leonard and hearns are 2 of the best fighters ever.....just watching them on tape there style translates so well and they would dominate todays competition....hearns losses with the exception of the great leonard are above welterweight....

im as big floyd fan as anyone but you cant say haglers competition was nobodys then brag about floyds wins at lightweight.....the legacy names of his record are corralles, hatton, hernandez, and dlh....castillo was never that great....dont be ignorant...

[DeepSleep]

Nothing special about the FAB FOUR, Controversy is what made them great.

The FAB 4 era is not greater than any other era. People overrate their boxing skills and their fights. Most fights were either one sided and eventless. All of these 4 fighters had flaws and would have been exposed by many other fighters in different eras

Hagler
People call Hagler the greatest MW of all time, how so. Do people ignore the fact Hagler best wins are over much smaller men? He could not KO Duran who is much smaller than Hagler. He lost to Leonard a fighter who started at 147. That is shameful. I know many of you know the JMM-PBF fight is happening soon. If Floyd lost to JMM, he will be clowned on and people wouldn’t rate him as an ATG.But yet Hagler gets praised for going the full distance with Duran and losing to Leonard.

Are you guys aware Hagler has 2 losses and 2 draws early in his career. No one ever mentions these losses, if Hagler is a GREAT MW, he shouldn’t be losing to bums or drawing with them. Hagler was also afraid to move up. He knew his skills wouldn’t been able to compensate for his size disadvantage, hence why he stayed at 160 and waited for WW to come up.

What makes Hagler great: Simply, that he changed his name to Marvelous Marvin Hagler. This short war with chinny WW hearns. Also his controversial lost to a WW named Leonard.

Again nothing great about Hagler, his boxing skills are decent but it was the controversy surrdooning him at the time that made him great

Thomas Hearns

Easily one of the most overrated clown in boxing history. What type of ATG is KO’d 4 times. I can tell you for a fact that he would last in the ring with Mosley,Tito and Paul Williams. These guys are would all have Hearns out of there by round 5.

He was KO’d by Barkley. Barkley was KO’d by Robbies Sims for **** sake. Lost to 3 bums by points decision. Barkley also is overrated, yet he was able to KO hearns. Barkley would be classified as a can in today standards, and yes his early losses should been held against him

What makes Herans great: His KO win over small man Duran. His build fight with Hagler and his antics.



Roberto “No Mas” Duran


Some people have the audacity to call Duran skillfu. Duran is nothing more than a product of Hispanic pride, they use to him to help cover their insecurities. Duran is just a level above Hatton/Margarito skill wise. His was flat footed,heartless and one dimensional. They claim Duran was prime ay 135, a division where he lost to a bum with an inflated record. Most fans of Duran(Hispanics) claim Duran was past it when he was at 147, when he started to fight Americans. Yet Floyd is still considered prime at 154

The amount of losses Duran has accumulated is ridiculous. There should been an overhaul of ATG criteria. Duran shouldn’t been considered as an ATG, he has one lucky win over Leonard who had fought a stupid fight. One of Duran’s best win is over Barkley, the man who was KO’D and UD by bums. If people claim Duran greatness because of his wins after 147, then his losses should also be held against him.

Duran has losses to unknown fighters such as Laing Sims Lawlor and many others. It would take me a year to write down Duran losses. What I find most distributing is that he is ranked the highest among the so called fab four, when he has losses to all of them and one win. Again nothing special about Duran.

Duran would not be able to beat Floyd,Mosley,Whitaker at 135, and would have been KO’D by Williams,Winky at 160.
What makes Duran special: The No Mas incident. This is what Duran is remembered for and always will be. This is Duran stake for ATGness. Quitting has somehow made Duran greater. This lifestyle outside of boxing has also added to the Hispanic hype machine. Duran after Marciano the most overrated boxer of all time.



Sugar “LW owned “ Leonard
Even as an African American, I can say Leonard is also the product of African American hyping machine. For some own reason the AA community has fallen in love with this fraudster. Put a red nose on Leonard and he becomes a clown.
Hagler/Leonard = Oscar/Pernell. Both Oscar and Leonard stole the fight, they didn’t win. They threw flurries at the end of each round to deception the judges and it worked. They also were big draws at the time, so they knew they were also going to get the decision.
Leonard also waited for Hagler to get old until he rematched him. There was signs he was declining, hence why Leonard took the opportunity to fight him. Again, he lost to Herans in the rematch. He beat Duran when he was unprepared. What kind of so called great WW has to get a LW untrained to beat him? Leonard also was beaten UP by a LW. That is shameful. I would not consider PBF if he loses to JMM. Leonard was beaten out of boxing by two skillless guys.

Leonard is also another overrate Fab Four clown.

What makes Leonard great: His quick rematch with Duran. His robbery against Hearns. Telling Hagler fight will not happen in front of his face. And finally his so “win” over Hagler



Overall

Ther Fab four was NOT a great era, just an era fill of weird events which painted a picture of their so called greatness. You can’t say this era is better than the last WW era or the current one. You can’t say this era is better than Pac/Morales/MAB AND JMM era. I don’t think Duran would beat any top LW. I don’t think Herans could hang with the current MW right now. I think Hopkins would school Hagler and make him stupider than Tito. Leonard is the only one who I consider so what talented.

Fab Four is another boxing myth created by certain individuals trying to make Duran greater than he is and trying to have an Hispanic in boxing top 10 ATG

By that logic you can do the same to JMM/MAB/PacMan/Morrales


JMM: Lost to Freddie Norwood and never avenged the fight. Best win was against average Casamayor, and overarted Diaz(Malinaggi schooled him why couldn't JMM?). Best known for Drawing and Losing to Overated PacMan.

^^^This is what you just did to the Fab Four, this type of argument can be applied to just about every fighter and it doesn't prove too much. Your

Clearly JMM isn't a bum and neither is any of the Fab Four. Perhaps slightly overrated, but every fighter from the past is overrated a slight bit just like how everything was better back in the day...

[TheGreatA]

I noticed theGreatA didn't spend a great detailed time of effort in defending Ray Leonard,He had to dismiss what the thread starter said about Leonard to validate his entire response but from what I saw he gave a three very detailed rebuttals in regards to Hagler,Hearns and Duran but not so much Leonard

Why am I supposed to write a rebuttal to this?

"Even as an African American, I can say Leonard is also the product of African American hyping machine. For some own reason the AA community has fallen in love with this fraudster. Put a red nose on Leonard and he becomes a clown.
Hagler/Leonard = Oscar/Pernell. Both Oscar and Leonard stole the fight, they didn’t win. They threw flurries at the end of each round to deception the judges and it worked. They also were big draws at the time, so they knew they were also going to get the decision.
Leonard also waited for Hagler to get old until he rematched him. There was signs he was declining, hence why Leonard took the opportunity to fight him. Again, he lost to Herans in the rematch. He beat Duran when he was unprepared. What kind of so called great WW has to get a LW untrained to beat him? Leonard also was beaten UP by a LW. That is shameful. I would not consider PBF if he loses to JMM. Leonard was beaten out of boxing by two skillless guys."

African American hype machine?
Leonard a fraudster and a clown?
Leonard stole the Hagler fight yet Hagler is a bum for losing to Leonard?
Leonard was beaten by two skilless guys? Camacho and Norris had no skill?

And the first half of Duran's career is extremely padded,Title defenses against unranked contenders for the most part and he avoided a unification bout with Rodolfo Gonzalez when he was WBC champion,Ken Buchanan never got a rematch despite remaining a top contender and the major controversy surrounding their first fight

It is padded but then again he had 70 fights at that weight. You can't expect anyone to fight 70 times against top competition.

Even then he fought Ernesto Marcel, the featherweight champ, Hiroshi Kobayashi, the former undisputed super featherweight champ, Ken Buchanan, the reigning lightweight champ, Esteban DeJesus, the WBC world lightweight champ, Saoul Mamby, a future LWW champ, Suzuki Ishimatsu, a future lightweight champ, Edwin Viruet, a top ranked contender, Ray Lampkin, top ranked contender, Hector Thompson, a top ranked contender, Vilomar Fernandez, a top ranked contender, Emiliano Villa, a top ranked contender, Leoncio Ortiz, a top ranked contender...

That's a pretty good resume in itself but there was more to come.

How did Duran avoid Rodolfo Gonzales, who only held the title because the WBC had inexplicably stripped it off Ken Buchanan, when his reign didn't last much longer than a year before he was knocked out by Guts Ishimatsu, a man Duran had completely dominated previously?

Gonzales was good but I don't think his reign at the top was long enough to say that Duran deliberately "ducked" him.

The Buchanan bout was only controversial because Duran responded with a punch that went low when Buchanan started swinging after the bell had sounded. Duran had been in control of the fight up to that point.

Buchanan should have gotten his rematch at some point and would have surely forced it to be made had he beaten Ishimatsu for the WBC version of the title. He was unsuccessful in his attempt to regain the title.

I believe that in the end Duran's camp did offer a rematch to Buchanan but Buchanan declined the offer and retired.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...n+ken+buchanan

Unfortunately this is a pay-per-view article but it's about Buchanan declining the fight offer against Duran:

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/chicagot...g&pqatl=google

[StarshipTrooper]

Let's face it: Flawless has a long and less than steller track record here on Boxing Scene. This is nothing more than yet another shameless attempt by him to make his idol Floyd Mayweather look like the GOAT by ripping down past greats. Go back and read this guy's posts: Everything he does revolves around making Floyd the GOAT. It's not just an ulterior motive it's his ONLY motive.

Poet

[Dan...]

Some ******ed **** right there.

[1SILVA]

Nothing special about the FAB FOUR, Controversy is what made them great.

The FAB 4 era is not greater than any other era. People overrate their boxing skills and their fights. Most fights were either one sided and eventless. All of these 4 fighters had flaws and would have been exposed by many other fighters in different eras

Hagler
People call Hagler the greatest MW of all time, how so. Do people ignore the fact Hagler best wins are over much smaller men? He could not KO Duran who is much smaller than Hagler. He lost to Leonard a fighter who started at 147. That is shameful. I know many of you know the JMM-PBF fight is happening soon. If Floyd lost to JMM, he will be clowned on and people wouldn’t rate him as an ATG.But yet Hagler gets praised for going the full distance with Duran and losing to Leonard.

Are you guys aware Hagler has 2 losses and 2 draws early in his career. No one ever mentions these losses, if Hagler is a GREAT MW, he shouldn’t be losing to bums or drawing with them. Hagler was also afraid to move up. He knew his skills wouldn’t been able to compensate for his size disadvantage, hence why he stayed at 160 and waited for WW to come up.

What makes Hagler great: Simply, that he changed his name to Marvelous Marvin Hagler. This short war with chinny WW hearns. Also his controversial lost to a WW named Leonard.

Again nothing great about Hagler, his boxing skills are decent but it was the controversy surrdooning him at the time that made him great

Thomas Hearns

Easily one of the most overrated clown in boxing history. What type of ATG is KO’d 4 times. I can tell you for a fact that he would last in the ring with Mosley,Tito and Paul Williams. These guys are would all have Hearns out of there by round 5.

He was KO’d by Barkley. Barkley was KO’d by Robbies Sims for **** sake. Lost to 3 bums by points decision. Barkley also is overrated, yet he was able to KO hearns. Barkley would be classified as a can in today standards, and yes his early losses should been held against him

What makes Herans great: His KO win over small man Duran. His build fight with Hagler and his antics.



Roberto “No Mas” Duran


Some people have the audacity to call Duran skillfu. Duran is nothing more than a product of Hispanic pride, they use to him to help cover their insecurities. Duran is just a level above Hatton/Margarito skill wise. His was flat footed,heartless and one dimensional. They claim Duran was prime ay 135, a division where he lost to a bum with an inflated record. Most fans of Duran(Hispanics) claim Duran was past it when he was at 147, when he started to fight Americans. Yet Floyd is still considered prime at 154

The amount of losses Duran has accumulated is ridiculous. There should been an overhaul of ATG criteria. Duran shouldn’t been considered as an ATG, he has one lucky win over Leonard who had fought a stupid fight. One of Duran’s best win is over Barkley, the man who was KO’D and UD by bums. If people claim Duran greatness because of his wins after 147, then his losses should also be held against him.

Duran has losses to unknown fighters such as Laing Sims Lawlor and many others. It would take me a year to write down Duran losses. What I find most distributing is that he is ranked the highest among the so called fab four, when he has losses to all of them and one win. Again nothing special about Duran.

Duran would not be able to beat Floyd,Mosley,Whitaker at 135, and would have been KO’D by Williams,Winky at 160.
What makes Duran special: The No Mas incident. This is what Duran is remembered for and always will be. This is Duran stake for ATGness. Quitting has somehow made Duran greater. This lifestyle outside of boxing has also added to the Hispanic hype machine. Duran after Marciano the most overrated boxer of all time.



Sugar “LW owned “ Leonard
Even as an African American, I can say Leonard is also the product of African American hyping machine. For some own reason the AA community has fallen in love with this fraudster. Put a red nose on Leonard and he becomes a clown.
Hagler/Leonard = Oscar/Pernell. Both Oscar and Leonard stole the fight, they didn’t win. They threw flurries at the end of each round to deception the judges and it worked. They also were big draws at the time, so they knew they were also going to get the decision.
Leonard also waited for Hagler to get old until he rematched him. There was signs he was declining, hence why Leonard took the opportunity to fight him. Again, he lost to Herans in the rematch. He beat Duran when he was unprepared. What kind of so called great WW has to get a LW untrained to beat him? Leonard also was beaten UP by a LW. That is shameful. I would not consider PBF if he loses to JMM. Leonard was beaten out of boxing by two skillless guys.

Leonard is also another overrate Fab Four clown.

What makes Leonard great: His quick rematch with Duran. His robbery against Hearns. Telling Hagler fight will not happen in front of his face. And finally his so “win” over Hagler



Overall

Ther Fab four was NOT a great era, just an era fill of weird events which painted a picture of their so called greatness. You can’t say this era is better than the last WW era or the current one. You can’t say this era is better than Pac/Morales/MAB AND JMM era. I don’t think Duran would beat any top LW. I don’t think Herans could hang with the current MW right now. I think Hopkins would school Hagler and make him stupider than Tito. Leonard is the only one who I consider so what talented.

Fab Four is another boxing myth created by certain individuals trying to make Duran greater than he is and trying to have an Hispanic in boxing top 10 ATG

Each one of the fights amongst the four were closed circuit spectaculars. hearns and Leonard are top 5 welters of all time, Duran top 5 lightweight and Hagler top 5 middle. Hearns is the only one not in the ibhof yet for he is not eligible until 2012. If these four and the era they fought in are overrated, than so is every other so called great era in the history of boxing. Hagler's 2 losses and draws were very controversila. No one ever outboxed hearns, and Leonard was the biggest draw of his era. Duran was possibly the fighter of the 70's. All four are ATG's and are viewed by the vast majority of fans and experts as legends of the ring. Please read the book Four Kings by George Kimball. It paints a perfect picture of the atmosphere and impact of each fight between the four.

[Clyde Barrow]

The guy who made this thread is a complete fool. I notice a lot of immaturity in the main forum, as that is where the bulk of posters congregate. I suspect many of them are newer fans to the sport. I'm surprised to see that this kind of stupidity has found its way to this section of the site. I see many of those younger posters in NSB attacking the credibility of top fighters to put PBF on a greater pedestal. But this thread is a slap to the face of 4 bonafide legends in our sport, and the threadstarter has lost his right to be taken seriously.

[Mushashi]

I can't believe you guys have fallen for this troll thread. Don't give him the satisfaction by responding to this BS

[talip bin osman]

this era's fab 4 of morales, pacquiao, marquez & barrera >>>> PBF...

[Smokin'J]

Wow.. Just wow.
How low can people sink?