Where do you rate Vitali Klitschko among ATG heavyweights?

[Tha_Greatest]

Really hard to gauge, their comp is so weak. Cant fault the brothers though, they are taking on everyone between them and barely losing a round doing it

Its hard to get past Wlad's chin deficiency's when imagining him in with the greats like Tyson, Frazier, Louis, Foreman ect

Vitali i rate higher but he is imo beatable, guys like Larry Holmes would school him i feel and Lennox pretty much showed he if prime would win clearly enough as he did it (albeit on cuts) when fat and old, a Tyson would have to much speed and hustle for him too i think so there u have 3 totally different fighters that i could see beating him straight of the bat

Statistically they are incredible though and in years to come i think they might be remembered more fondly than they are now, kinda like Lennox

stupid fan, misinformation all absurd and biased to your stupid point of view as a idiot that you are, not joking either, your analizations are full of **** and worthless

[TMTPromotions]

Below Lennox anyway.

[BennyST]

I remember people were saying Arreola is the next new star at HW just like Haye with Brits. Now that they both got exposed by a Klit they went to bum status. Somehow with the magic of media and Klit haters Haye is back on the next Jesus status because he beat a Klit leftover. It's all favoritism. Our societies have grown to hate eastern Europeans just like it's switching over to countries of the Muslim world.

This point of view is so absurd and frustrating. The ol' "Oh, he's only called a bum now because he got beat so easy. Everyone said he was going to be great beforehand". The problem is that a great fighter is a great fighter and shows it. If they get beat by one guy, they will go on and still win big elsewhere. Arreola was fat, sloppy and **** before Vitali and he's fat, sloppy and **** after him too.

Take Leonard for example. He came up, won the 147 title, beat an undefeated ATG and everyone said "He's amazing!" but then he got beat by an older, smaller, slower guy that had moved up from 135. You know why people didn't say "Oh, he's just a bum"? Because, after it happened he went and won the rematch, beat Hearns, beat Hagler, won titles in 5 weight divisions, and his opponents all went on to greatness after too.

When someone looks great and can't pass their first test, that's fine, as long as they do well after. If they just go on and get beat and look ****, it's because they were never that good in the first place. The Nipple is a ****ing fat bum. He's an ok contender and that's it. No more no less. Pretending he's more because of his pre-Vitali hype is absurd.

Not only that, but he was already 28 or 29 and hadn't even beaten one single paper champion, future/former or present. That doesn't speak of a great fighter. He still hasn't beaten a single paper champion in the three years since. Again, doesn't really bode well if he can't even beat one paper champion before or after in his nearly 40 fight, decade long pro career.

He hadn't won a title, hadn't beaten any champion at all, let alone a HOF/ATG fighter. If he had lost against the better guy in Vitali, that would have been cool if he had gone on to show he was great, that he just lost to a truly great fighter that one time, but he went on to get beat by a guy he should have whipped if he was a good heavyweight. He still hasn't done **** all.

So please, just think before using that argument. Great fighters always show themselves to be great through what they do over their whole career, not just because of one fight or some brief, and very desperate, hype before they even have their first test. All great fighters lose. It's what they do before and what they do after that makes them great though. The Nipple hasn't done **** before or after!

[BennyST]

No I'm being realistic. Sorry that you can't comprehend.

I mean you make Roy seem like a god but his resume is crap compared to other greats overall. Yet you're criticizing someone over resume.

Another one is Azumah Nelson as an ATG but yet his resume isn't all that either.

Like I said, favoritism....it's who you like and don't.

You're ****ing kidding me right?

You're comparing Roy Jones and Azumah Nelson to Vitali based on resume?

First things first: resume is based on what beaten opponents do before and after fighting said guy. Whether they were champions, whether they did much before and/or after the fight. Yes? Well, let's look at a quick resume comparison.

Vitali
HOFers: 0
Lineal champions: 0
Heavyweight paper champions (former, future or present): 4 (Herbie Hide, Corrie Sanders, Sam Peter, Shannon Briggs).
Non heavyweight champs: 3 (Orlin Norris, Tomas Adamek, Juan Gomez).
Champions beaten when they were champion: 1 (Hide)
Champions in defeat: 2 (Lewis, Byrd)

Jones
HOFers beaten: 5, arguably more but I'll only list certainties (Hopkins, Toney, McCallum, Hill, Tito). Possibles: Tarver, Paz.
Lineal Champions: 3 (I think Hopkins, Hill, Tarver?)
Champions beaten: 18/19 (can't be ****ed listing 'em all. You can figure out easily enough)
Champs beaten while champion: 7 (Toney, Tate, DeValle, Griffin, Ruiz, Tarver, Reggie Johnson)
Champs in defeat: 59 Calzaghe, Hopkins, Green, Tarver, Johnson etc etc.

One thing to note before Nelson's is that the WBO was not recognised until the later half of his reign, and it was not considered one of the major belts until after his career ended and wasn't until well after 2000 that it even allowed its champ to fight for another title. The IBF came into existence around the time Nelson won his first title too, so it was largely just the WBC and WBA, meaning that there weren't 57,000 titles to to be had. It was only in the 90's that the IBF really gained in legitimacy and then the president got thrown in jail for fraud and taking bribes from promoters to give it to their fighters.
Nelson
HOFers: 2 (Gomez, Fenech)
Lineal: 1 (Gomez)
Champs: 7 champs a total of 9 times.
Champs beaten when champion: 4
Champs in defeat: 5 or 6

That's just looking at basic things and not the accomplishments of each champion, how many divisions they won titles in etc etc.

[4Corners]

Johnson, McVey, Langford, Wills, Jeanette, Louis, Charles, Walcott, Marciano, Patterson, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, Wlad.

Those fighters all have better careers/resumes than Vitali.

[The Hammer]

Johnson, McVey, Langford, Wills, Jeanette, Louis, Charles, Walcott, Marciano, Patterson, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, Wlad.

Those fighters all have better careers/resumes than Vitali.

Some of them do, some of them do not.

[The Big Dunn]

Some of them do, some of them do not.

At some point, the people who hold vitali in such high esteem have to be honest about his opposition. He will end his career having lost fights against the 2 best opponents he faced.

when a fighter is best known for being ahead on the scorecards against the HWT champ when the fight is stopped because for medical reasons and quitting in another title fight, he shouldn't go to the HOF, especially if his best win is either Corrie Sanders (rip), herbie Hide, or chris aereola.

[The Hammer]

At some point, the people who hold vitali in such high esteem have to be honest about his opposition. He will end his career having lost fights against the 2 best opponents he faced.

when a fighter is best known for being ahead on the scorecards against the HWT champ when the fight is stopped because for medical reasons and quitting in another title fight, he shouldn't go to the HOF, especially if his best win is either Corrie Sanders (rip), herbie Hide, or chris aereola.

I see in the poll you rate him below the top 200 at HW.

Is that fair and objective?

By the way, who is "aereola"?

[DiegoFuego]

Vitali had one chance at greatness and completely blew it against a 40 year old, fat, out of shape, ready to retire Lennox Lewis. The fact that he could not take him out tells me everything I need to know about Vitali. Yes, he's a good fighter, but he is not top 20 based off that performance. If he had KO'd that pathetic version of Lewis, then maybe we're talking top 15-20.

[The Big Dunn]

I see in the poll you rate him below the top 200 at HW.

Is that fair and objective?

By the way, who is "aereola"?

Does Vitali have any wins over a HWT you would consider to be top 100 or 150? Honestly, if you can down his resume and find any opponent that you would place in this category that means he will have beaten 1. Respectfully, how can you rate someone like that so highly even if he has KO'd all of the opponents.

Sam Peter? Larry DOnald? anyone

Arreloa spelling error.