How much more Mayweather needs to do to be serious candidate for GOAT?

[IronDanHamza]

Mayweather ?... well judging by the common opponent he has with Pacquiao, Miguel Cotto, I think Pacquiao is way better than Mayweather,, and I can now see why Floyd wants to avoid Pacquiao..... So Floyd, you either fight Pacman within the year or forever be ranked behind him, no more excuses are acceptable.

Like I said in the other thread, you can't judge who is better of common opponents. You said it yourself, styles make fights.

In 1974, George Foreman and Muhammad Ali had two common opponents; Ali lost to Norton and Fraizer, Foreman destroyed them both in two rounds. Who's better?

Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquaio are around the same level. Hell, there's an argument that Mayweather is greater IMO.

[New England]

Ever seen Robinson fight?

I honestly don't see how he has come to be known primarily as this grand, elegant boxer. Dancer, my ass. Guy was a savage. Sure, He circled the ring with fluidity and balance and possessed a quick, accurate jab, but used it to set up and unload an array of power blows, effectively choosing his spots and ripping off multiple shots to the body and head at the drop of a dime. Had so much speed and power, could punch and hurt you wading in-and-out, going forward or backwards, with a cast iron chin of his own. Best combination puncher I've ever seen -- that includes Louis, Tyson, Leonard, et al. This is based primarily on '50s Middleweight material, when Robinson was over 30 years old and no longer at his peak or even his most dominant weight class. Crazy.

Comparing his record to anybody not named Greb, Langford, Charles, Armstrong is almost a certain joke as well.

fuck yeah

why dance when you've got a chin of stone and you might be the best offensive fighter ever?
dig in and take somebody's head off.

joe louis
ray robinson
no order. two bonafide killers.

[Hands of Iron]

fuck yeah

why dance when you've got a chin of stone and you might be the best offensive fighter ever?
dig in and take somebody's head off.

joe louis
ray robinson
no order. two bonafide killers.

Did a pretty good job of it in his biggest Middleweight wins:

Jake LaMotta (TKO 13)
Randy Turpin (TKO 10)
Rocky Graziano (KO 3)
Carl Olson (UD 15) (KO 2) (KO 4)
Gene Fullmer (KO 5)
Carmen Basilio (SD 15)

All of these were brutal.

[Capaedia]

He destroyed Cotto,, Mayweather had a tougher time of it, Marquez is a naturally smaller man I would say,, and pacquiao is even more naturally smaller than Marquez. Obviously styles make fights, JMM has done better against pac than any I can think of. but Cotto,, although way bigger than pac (talkin natural weight), was owned and brutalised by pacquiao, I say this without blinking, PacMans feats outshine Jrs and is pound for pound the better fighter,, and still why does mayweather avoid him ?

That Cotto was coming off a brutal beating with loaded wraps, into a bad style match-up. Cotto is always going to do better against boxers. He doesn't have the stamina to hold up against a pressure fighter like Margarito or Pacquiao.

Also you can't just lay the blame for the fight not happening on Mayweather. Both camps have ****ed the fight up. Bob Arum wanted to delay it until a date he pretended he didn't know Mayweather would be in prison, he wanted to build a new stadium, "Pacquiao had a cut that was too deep after Marquez III". Pacquiao walked away from the table in 2009 over drug testing when it was 50:50 split.

After all that (and a goddamn lawsuit) Mayweather doesn't want to give him 50:50. Go figure.

[wmute]

That Cotto was coming off a brutal beating with loaded wraps, into a bad style match-up. Cotto is always going to do better against boxers. He doesn't have the stamina to hold up against a pressure fighter like Margarito or Pacquiao.

Also you can't just lay the blame for the fight not happening on Mayweather. Both camps have ****ed the fight up. Bob Arum wanted to delay it until a date he pretended he didn't know Mayweather would be in prison, he wanted to build a new stadium, "Pacquiao had a cut that was too deep after Marquez III". Pacquiao walked away from the table in 2009 over drug testing when it was 50:50 split.

After all that (and a goddamn lawsuit) Mayweather doesn't want to give him 50:50. Go figure.

You might want to add that the great Manny Pacquiao had just said that he was willing to get less than 50-50.

Or that the brave indomitable warrior has just turned down Cotto without a catchweight.

The list is long...

[Capaedia]

You might want to add that the great Manny Pacquiao had just said that he was willing to get less than 50-50.

Or that the brave indomitable warrior has just turned down Cotto without a catchweight.

The list is long...

The more things I list, the more sources I may be asked for.

I just went with my favourites.

[New England]

Did a pretty good job of it in his biggest Middleweight wins:

Jake LaMotta (TKO 13)
Randy Turpin (TKO 10)
Rocky Graziano (KO 3)
Carl Olson (UD 15) (KO 2) (KO 4)
Gene Fullmer (KO 5)
Carmen Basilio (SD 15)

All of these were brutal.

and as you alluded to earlier, they took place after more fights in than most guys today will ever fight
and at middleweight.


i dont have any problems picturing robinson being more of a defensive specialist if he were brought up in today's boxing traditions. you'd have a hard time winning rounds fighting in 1950 with a completely defensive style similar to the ones you see today.

he had the speed. he had the timing.
he just wasnt thinking defense first all of the time. many of today's american boxers think defense almost exclusively. i blame in part the amateur point system, but that's another topic for another day.


and of course if you're 154 lbs and above you have 10 oz gloves to block shots with

[McGoorty]

We all know you like Darcy.

You don't need too be a great puncher to be up there with Robinson as is evident, just because you 'prefer' someone that can punch hard doesn't mean that you can't compare Greb's greatness to Robinson's, his resume is just as good as Robinson's, you could even argue Greb's resume is better / greater.

All I have tried to point out that is that a COMPLETE fighter has it all,,, including the ability to KO someone, if Greb was way behind on points in a matchup with Robinson, or anyone else for that matter the only way he's gonna win the fight is by a knockout, am I right, or am I just an idiot or a simpleton that WMute says I am ?....... Greb had a great record as did Robinson, as did Darcy.... by the way Mute, I hate wrestling, period, I prefer to wrestle with women.... But back to my point,, it is a fact that Harry was not a great puncher,, Ray was, and there is nothing that Harry could do that Ray couldn't,, plus I've only seen Greb in a sparring session on film and the difference between that guy in the film,, and SRR (or Darcy) is vast as far as technical skills go, maybe Harry nullified all those things by simply being far too overwhelming, and I believe the best form of defense is attack...... anyway, if Mute feels sorry for me, I couldn't give a rats.

[Barn]

All I have tried to point out that is that a COMPLETE fighter has it all,,, including the ability to KO someone, if Greb was way behind on points in a matchup with Robinson, or anyone else for that matter the only way he's gonna win the fight is by a knockout, am I right, or am I just an idiot or a simpleton that WMute says I am ?....... Greb had a great record as did Robinson, as did Darcy.... by the way Mute, I hate wrestling, period, I prefer to wrestle with women.... But back to my point,, it is a fact that Harry was not a great puncher,, Ray was, and there is nothing that Harry could do that Ray couldn't,, plus I've only seen Greb in a sparring session on film and the difference between that guy in the film,, and SRR (or Darcy) is vast as far as technical skills go, maybe Harry nullified all those things by simply being far too overwhelming, and I believe the best form of defense is attack...... anyway, if Mute feels sorry for me, I couldn't give a rats.

[McGoorty]

I did say the other day that I hold Greb high, but not as high as Robinson, and I believe Darcy was great and also that had he lived another ten years ALL OF YOU would rate him extremely high and I wouldnt have to defend the bloke here against some who have almost zero conception of even who he is,, he is like a phantom to most fans today,, but even with the 1% of knowledge most here have of him compared to the far greater knowledge of Greb and Robbo,,, they have to put forward an opinion of him,,, read up, study the films of him, then I may start paying more attention to his critics, of which he has more than his FAIR share..... for my part I have endeavoured to find out everything there is to know of him............ Does anyone ever take into account his incredible achievements for a fighter who had his last fight at age 20, through no fault of his own, its almost as if many american fans are relieved he died so young,, Boxing isnt just a US thing you know.