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Old 08-27-2009, 11:27 AM
TheGreatA
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As for your arguments:

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Flawless View Post
The FAB 4 era is not greater than any other era. People overrate their boxing skills and their fights. Most fights were either one sided and eventless. All of these 4 fighters had flaws and would have been exposed by many other fighters in different eras
Hagler-Hearns
Hearns-Leonard
Duran-Leonard

Eventless?

Quote:
Hagler
People call Hagler the greatest MW of all time, how so.
Him, Carlos Monzon and perhaps Harry Greb.

Quote:
Do people ignore the fact Hagler best wins are over much smaller men? He could not KO Duran who is much smaller than Hagler. He lost to Leonard a fighter who started at 147. That is shameful.
Take a look at Carlos Monzon's or Bernard Hopkins's best wins at middleweight.

Hagler dominated his era of middleweights and also fought Leonard, Hearns and Duran. He wasn't a big middleweight by any means at 5'9, Leonard and Duran were eye-to-eye with him and Hearns towered over him.

Quote:
I know many of you know the JMM-PBF fight is happening soon. If Floyd lost to JMM, he will be clowned on and people wouldn***8217;t rate him as an ATG.But yet Hagler gets praised for going the full distance with Duran and losing to Leonard.
Marquez is a 36 year old former featherweight. He hasn't proven anything above lightweight, unlike Duran, Leonard and Hearns did.

Quote:
Are you guys aware Hagler has 2 losses and 2 draws early in his career. No one ever mentions these losses, if Hagler is a GREAT MW, he shouldn***8217;t be losing to bums or drawing with them. Hagler was also afraid to move up. He knew his skills wouldn***8217;t been able to compensate for his size disadvantage, hence why he stayed at 160 and waited for WW to come up.
One of his losses was a blatant robbery. He was only 21 years old at the time of these fights, fighting in his opponents' hometowns. Later on he avenged both losses in devastating fashion.

Hagler was even younger when he drew with Sugar Ray Seales (in Seales's hometown), the Olympic Gold medalist and highly regarded prospect. Hagler had previously beaten him, and went onto beat Seales again.

Hagler drew in his first title challenge against Vito Antuofermo. The decision should have gone to Hagler.

Quote:
What makes Hagler great: Simply, that he changed his name to Marvelous Marvin Hagler. This short war with chinny WW hearns. Also his controversial lost to a WW named Leonard.

Again nothing great about Hagler, his boxing skills are decent but it was the controversy surrdooning him at the time that made him great
There was no controversy about Hagler. He came up the hard way, fighting for small purses in his opponents' hometowns, establishing himself as a contender by beating all the tough Philadelphia middleweights as well as the number 1 middleweight contender at the time. He went to England and took the title away from Alan Minter, defending it against all comers.

Quote:
Easily one of the most overrated clown in boxing history. What type of ATG is KO***8217;d 4 times. I can tell you for a fact that he would last in the ring with Mosley,Tito and Paul Williams. These guys are would all have Hearns out of there by round 5.
A lot of ATG's have been KO'd more than 4 times. One of these stoppage losses was due to an injury when he was 40+ years old, two of them above his best weight at middleweight, one of them in the 14th round when Hearns had run out of stamina.

Quote:
He was KO***8217;d by Barkley. Barkley was KO***8217;d by Robbies Sims for **** sake. Lost to 3 bums by points decision. Barkley also is overrated, yet he was able to KO hearns. Barkley would be classified as a can in today standards, and yes his early losses should been held against him
Robbie Sims was a top middleweight contender while Barkley had fought 8 times as a pro.

Quote:
What makes Herans great: His KO win over small man Duran. His build fight with Hagler and his antics.
Wins over welterweight champ Pipino Cuevas as well as Bruce Curry, Angel Espada, Eddie Gazo, Saensak Muangsurin, Randy Shields, Clyde Gray, Harold Weston

Wins over light middleweight champ Wilfred Benitez and Roberto Duran as well as Luigi Minchillo, Mark Medal, Fred Hutchings

Wins over middleweight contenders Juan Roldan, Doug DeWitt, James Shuler, James Kinchen, Michael Olajide, Mike Colbert, Marcos Geraldo

Wins over light heavyweight champ Virgil Hill and Dennis Andries

Quote:
Some people have the audacity to call Duran skillfu. Duran is nothing more than a product of Hispanic pride, they use to him to help cover their insecurities. Duran is just a level above Hatton/Margarito skill wise. His was flat footed,heartless and one dimensional. They claim Duran was prime ay 135, a division where he lost to a bum with an inflated record. Most fans of Duran(Hispanics) claim Duran was past it when he was at 147, when he started to fight Americans. Yet Floyd is still considered prime at 154
No skill?


7:15

Esteban DeJesus a bum? That's the same as calling Jose Luis Castillo a bum.

Duran was considered past it when he was over 30 years old and had fought more than 70-80 times as a professional.

Quote:
The amount of losses Duran has accumulated is ridiculous. There should been an overhaul of ATG criteria. Duran shouldn***8217;t been considered as an ATG, he has one lucky win over Leonard who had fought a stupid fight. One of Duran***8217;s best win is over Barkley, the man who was KO***8217;D and UD by bums. If people claim Duran greatness because of his wins after 147, then his losses should also be held against him.
Duran had lost once in 70 fights while in his prime. Obviously the losses start piling up when you are nearly/over 40 years of age and fight at 160+ lbs. He fought until he was fifty.

He had wins over world champions from featherweight up to middleweight.

Your criticisms of Leonard are too ridiculous to respond to. Apparently Leonard is a fraud for fighting an old Hagler and robbing him of the decision, while Hagler is a bum for losing to the smaller Ray Leonard.

Last edited by TheGreatA; 08-27-2009 at 11:36 AM.
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