Comments Thread For: Pacquiao, Roach: Discuss Marquez Issues, Fourth Fight

[sinaloakidd]

Of course Manny didn't choose to fight Marquez in April, he's gonna wait another year or two for a fourth fight. He wants to make sure Marquez older so he could be slower, weaker, and with less power. Smart move though, I dont blame him!

[MarloS04]

manny dont want nun of that.

[twosweethooks]

No it isn't true.

You are confusing NAME RECOGNITION with actual rank. Rank is what matters in boxing, not a reputation or name.

Pacquiao NEVER fought DLH, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito or Mosley when they were on top or winning. Therefore, it does not equal ELITE.

My man .. that's the REAL spin.

You're naming fighters like they're pokemon cards. Boxing doesn't work like that. All the fighters Manny fought were already beaten by other fighters immediately before he fought them barring insignificant tune ups.

For you to claim that Manny's WW competition was elite when in fact they were all ranked 4th or lower when he faced them shows that you are being disingenuous. I doubt that you are that ****** as you have written pretty good posts.

Well ... that and you haven't really named anyone that Floyd ducked. Fact is that Cotto declined a fight with Mayweather, and Margarito lost to Paul Williams when he was campaigning for a fight.

You've got to do better than that. I don't do "spin". Apparently you do.

My point is made. Either you present something to refute it or let's move on.

King of SPIN :

You just went spinning in a hole. hahaha,,,,, look what you said, you said all the welter weights Pac fought were not elite. They were the WWs of the day, ALL of em. There is no one else. JR fought some but they were defeated as well but for little Hatton. You certainly are not saying Hatton was an elite WW are you , LOL !

I can't believe you would say that.

Fact is the spin around the question. NOT one of the JR fans has NEVER answered the real question:

Name the elite Welter weight fighter that Jr has fought in the last 8 years !!

He has not fought one. He has pulled the wool over your eyes just like many others.

He will quit like his uncle quit on his stool and he knows it, so he picks fighters he can beat.

He is truly scared of Pac or why all the demands then the dramatic changes.

Fact is Pac fought All comers in the WWs. Who has he ducked ?

He offered JR a 45 to 45 split with the winner take the extra 10 percent but Jr refused that , so how do you figure he is confident of whipping the little one dimensional midget ?????

[thuggery]

I wonder why the entire MGM Grand stadium ended in a hail of boos from the majority pinoy crowd.

I guess everyone knew Pac robbed Marquez

[AdamantiumPI]

their both so evenly matched but i'd rather not see another fourth until after may-pac fight.

[MarloS04]

their both so evenly matched but i'd rather not see another fourth until after may-pac fight.

dat means never, coz may pac aint happening. If it aint blood testing, its money or weight or sum ****.

[Brother Jay]

King of SPIN :

You just went spinning in a hole. hahaha,,,,, look what you said, you said all the welter weights Pac fought were not elite. They were the WWs of the day, ALL of em. There is no one else. JR fought some but they were defeated as well but for little Hatton. You certainly are not saying Hatton was an elite WW are you , LOL !

I can't believe you would say that.

Fact is the spin around the question. NOT one of the JR fans has NEVER answered the real question:

Name the elite Welter weight fighter that Jr has fought in the last 8 years !!

He has not fought one. He has pulled the wool over your eyes just like many others.

He will quit like his uncle quit on his stool and he knows it, so he picks fighters he can beat.

He is truly scared of Pac or why all the demands then the dramatic changes.

Fact is Pac fought All comers in the WWs. Who has he ducked ?

He offered JR a 45 to 45 split with the winner take the extra 10 percent but Jr refused that , so how do you figure he is confident of whipping the little one dimensional midget ?????

WTF are you talking about? Do YOU even know?

Sharmba Mitchell - First fight at 147. They both were coming up from jrWW.

Zab Judah - Floyd had already negotiated with Zab before the loss to Baldomir. That's not cherry picking. That's Zab not taking care of business and losing to what was supposed to be a tune up. Learn the difference.

Carlos Baldomir - The WW champion ranked #1 coming off huge upset of Zab Judah.

Oscar DelaHoya - Coming off loss to Hopkins. Tune up against Mayorga. DelaHoya has NEVER been a winner on the top stage unless it was against a passed prime fighter like Whitaker or Chavez. However, the DLH fight was a big deal because DLH came in as a SMW-ltHW. That in itself was the intrigue.

Ricky Hatton - The irony of the Hatton fight was that Kostya Tszyu had priced himself out of a fight against Floyd, and instead chose to fight Hatton. Hatton came up with a HUGE upset and decided that if he could beat Tszyu, maybe he could beat Mayweather. Hatton chased Mayweather, who had moved up to face DLH. Mayweather knocked an undefeated Hatton out. The rest is history.

Juan Manuel Marquez - When Manny Pacquiao refused to give JMM a rematch, JMM stated that if he could not get Pacquiao, he would step up and do something even greater: fight the boxer that he felt was the #1P4P in the world, Floyd Mayweather. No Floyd fan counts this win as legacy enhancing as JMM was not a true WW, but Floyd did not bully JMM. He did not rough him up. He outboxed him with superior speed, reflexes and technique: something Pacquiao could not do at any weight .. including 147.

Shane Mosley - Going into the fight against Floyd, Mosley was the #1 WW in the world after having knocked out Antonio Margarito. Mosley proved that he still had what it took at that point by EARNING his position against the top fighter. Mosley had only one good round in his fight against Floyd and then it was a master class in boxing.

Victor Ortiz - There were questions about Ortiz' heart. He silenced those critics when he fought tooth and nail against the #2 WW in the world and won. The fight was a FOTY candidate. The intrigue in the Mayweather/Ortiz fight was that Ortiz was a young, strong, tenacious fighter who was the #2WW champion & coming in at 168lbs .. that's an 18lb advantage.

Using the term "ELITE" to try and strengthen your argument has FAILED.

"Why?", you might ask.

Well, because aside from Floyd the only other ELITE boxer that has been mentioned is Tszyu, JMM and Shane Mosley. Mosley's losses mostly come in at 154lbs: a weight he was NEVER effective in ... and his loss to Cotto is VERY disputable to any real fan who has actually seen the fight.

There aren't an abundance of "elite" fighters in any division, in any era. Just because a fighter is formidable doesn't make him an elite boxer. Elite refers to skills and ability to win over nearly anyone on any given day with reasonable weight disparities.

For you to refer to Cotto or Margarito as "elite" is laughable. Margarito's only noteworthy win was over Cotto. Cotto's only noteworthy win was over Mosley, and like I said, that outcome is HIGHLY DISPUTABLE. And both men got destroyed within 8 months of the biggest win of their careers.

Who else is supposedly "ELITE"?

If you are going to start throwing that term around, then share with the forum who exactly you feel is elite!

Barrera? - That ought to be fun considering that Barrera lost every time he stepped up. The only noteworthy win of his career came over Hamed and Morales .. and Hamed was ALL hype.

Morales? - Has a better case than Barrera because he beat Pacquiao, but aside from that who the hell has he ever beaten worth mentioning?

Hatton? - He had ONE win against Tszyu that catapulted him to the top of the world stage. Chasing Floyd was the worst decision he ever made. He admitted that he was done after Floyd, and that's why he switched trainers after being with Billy Graham for over 10 years.

Clottey? - Has never beaten a world champion in his career.

Berto? - Up and coming young champion who fell short against Ortiz is the biggest fight of his career. Never beat anyone of note.

I bet you think Martinez is "elite" even though he has only 2 noteworthy wins out of 52 fights.

Its wouldn't be surprising. You, no disrespect intended, are a hype whore. You let King and Arum sway your good reasoning by introducing hype as the scale in which you weigh talent, ability and accomplishments.

Its clearly hype because you can't state:

More than one win that Margarito has to call him elite.
More than one win that Martinez has to call him elite.
More than one win that Morales has to call him elite.
More than one win that Barrera has to call him elite.
More than one win that Hatton has to call him elite.
More than one win that Cotto has to call him elite.

"Elite" is a term you thought you'd use to support your argument. You thought you were on to something .. that is .. until someone asked you who else is elite.

Elite = someone who is exceptional, has the ability to reign and consistently defeats the #1, 2 and 3 fighters in the division(s) they compete in. They are in a word ... extraordinary. They are the epitome of what a champion is and how he should conduct his career.

Very seldom will you ever see two elite fighters face each other. Not because they are "ducking" each other, but because its rare that elite fighters exist in the same era and close enough in weight to make a match possible.

Real boxing fans understand this. New-to-boxing type fans continue to treat reputation as if its worth anything more than a way to sell PPVs and tickets. Its a childish notion, and that's exactly why its easy to understand why *******s cling to that notion. They don't see this because they don't really know what elite even means.

Not saying that YOU are a ******* as you at least take the time to explain your position. I'm just saying that you suffer from ******* misconceptions.

[Ankh599]

Point Blank Roach sucks

Roach is garbage. If he can't train his fighter to stop 1 fighter after 3 tries...Fire his ass! Trainer of the Year my ass!