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20 Billion: Top 20 Filmed Fighters of the last 80 years

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  • #21
    “Sugar” Ray Robinson

    Record: 173-19-6 (KO 108, 54%)
    Top Five Wins: Carmen Basilio Dec 15 (90), Fritzie Zivic TKO 10 (88), Gene Fullmer KO 5 (94), Kid Gavilan Dec 15 (95), Jake LaMotta Dec 10 (92); Points: 92
    Dominance: 14 of Robinson’s 19 losses came in the 1960’s, when he was long past his best. This is very relevant because he spent 18 years at the top of the sport, running rampant through the upper echelons of boxing almost unscathed. Before his loss to Randy Turpin, he was 122-1! A top-five litany of wins almost does him no justice, so I’ll show the rest of the champions he beat here. Hope you have some free time. Sammy Angott (HOF, Lightweight Champion*), Mary Servo (Undefeated, Welterweight Champion*, HOF), Fritzie Zivic x2 (HOF, Welterweight Champion*), Jake LaMotta x4 (1 KO) (Middleweight Champion*, HOF), Kid Gavilan (Welterweight Champion*, HOF), Bobo Olsen x4 (3 KO’s) (Middleweight Champion, HOF), Randy Turpin (Middleweight Champion), Rocky Graziano (Middleweight Champion*, HOF). That is quite a resume and it is not even counting all the elite fighters he faced who were never champion. Even with losses scattered here and there, it is hard to point to another fighter who so thoroughly controlled two divisions for so long. Points: 98
    *Denotes that he was not the champion at the time of the fight
    Style: Even ignorant of his resume, you can just look at Sugar Ray and see something special. He not only did everything well, he excelled at everything. His handspeed and boxing ability are remembered by all–his moves were “sweet as sugar,” after all–but there was a brutal streetbrawler in Robinson as well. He had incredible power, especially in his left hand, and a chin like a boulder. He was dropped several times, but was only stopped once; that was late in his career due to heat exhaustion while controlling the fight despite being outweighed by 16 pounds by Joey Maxim, who was a legend in his own right. If one were really to break out the fine-tooth comb, they might say that his defense was a little open and that he got wild when he was trying to finish, but those are tiny blips on the radar. Points: 99
    Consistency: The thing with Ray Robinson was that you might be able to beat him once, but you would never win a rematch. He found ways to adjust to styles and won every major rematch after a loss of his career (the exception being the second Jake LaMotta fight). To shred such a stacked division with so few losses and to avenge them properly is very impressive. Points: 93
    Longevity: Ray Robinson won his first belt in 1946, the vacant Welterweight title, over number one contender Tommy Bell and had been fighting elite competition for four years even before that. He lost his last crown to Paul Pender in 1960. For 18 years, Robinson terrorized fighters from lightweight up to middleweight. Points: 95
    Overall Grade: 94.9

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    • #22
      Helluva thread lad, helluva thread! The 20 billion looks locked!

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      • #23
        Originally posted by The Surgeon View Post
        Helluva thread lad, helluva thread! The 20 billion looks locked!
        Thanks brotha! But I KNOW there's placement you disagree with. Hell, I don't agree with half of this list haha. I'm still fine tuning how to balance each category. The prominence of guys like Lopez and Jones means that I think I'm putting too much on how "good" they were and not enough on how "great" they were.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by BigStereotype View Post
          Thanks brotha! But I KNOW there's placement you disagree with. Hell, I don't agree with half of this list haha. I'm still fine tuning how to balance each category. The prominence of guys like Lopez and Jones means that I think I'm putting too much on how "good" they were and not enough on how "great" they were.
          Man i hate doin lists they are so brutal! Im not big on Lamotta tbh, as tough as he was i think he is a Little over rated. Im loving ur system tho, very smart!

          Quick question for u totally random and off topic

          Does a Cow have a better chin than a horse? lol, Serious question

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          • #25
            Originally posted by The Surgeon View Post
            Man i hate doin lists they are so brutal! Im not big on Lamotta tbh, as tough as he was i think he is a Little over rated. Im loving ur system tho, very smart!

            Quick question for u totally random and off topic

            Does a Cow have a better chin than a horse? lol, Serious question
            Probably depends on the size of each and the breed of horse...but I'd take an angry bull over a Clydesdale any day. A female cow might be able to take the punch, but she'd shy away from that shit like Zab Judah. They're not aggressive. If you tried to punch a horse, it would either kick the living shit out of you or bite your fingers off and then kick the shit out of you. It would probably trample you on the ground, too.

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            • #26
              By the way, I think that that last post should win me the contest by default.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by BigStereotype View Post
                By the way, I think that that last post should win me the contest by default.
                Lol u had my vote anyway but after that its non debatable!

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                • #28
                  Alright, I'll get some debate going. Two things in particular jumped out at me here. 1. Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon are the third and fourth best fighters. I didn't expect that. 2. They were dead goddamn even! Going into this, I honestly was thinking "even if this doesn't work out ranking these guys overall, at least I'll be able to separate those two." Nope. That didn't happen. So what do you guys think is overrated about those two (in this test only) and are they really that inseparable?

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                  • #29
                    I redid my formula (Top 5: 35%, Dominance: 30%, Consistency 15%, Style 10%, Longevity 10%) and came up with this new list.


                    Mike Tyson 85.57

                    Shane Mosley 86.88

                    Ruben Olivares 87.37

                    Oscar de la Hoya 87.47

                    Rafael Marquez 87.62

                    George Foreman 87.62

                    Joe Frazier 87.87

                    Sonny Liston 87.88

                    Jake LaMotta 88.22

                    Salvador Sanchez 88.43

                    Thomas Hearns 88.52

                    Jack Dempsey 89.46

                    Archie Moore 89.64

                    Roy Jones, Jr 89.91

                    Alexis Arguello 90.2

                    Larry Holmes 90.38

                    Eder Jofre 90.58

                    Ricardo Lopez 91.01

                    Roberto Duran 91.04

                    Ezzard Charles 91.27

                    Ray Leonard 91.6

                    Gene Tunney 91.86

                    Julio C Chavez 91.87

                    Henry Armstrong 92.28

                    Joe Louis 92.28

                    Marvin Hagler 92.47

                    Pernell Whitaker 92.53

                    Wilie Pep 92.75

                    Carlos Monzon 93.37

                    Muhammad Ali 93.51

                    Ray Robinson 94.88
                    Last edited by BigStereotype; 08-22-2011, 08:48 AM.

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                    • #30
                      No Emile Griffith?

                      No Juan Manuel Marquez?

                      Finito was great, but lacked quality opposition and took fewer risks than JMM.

                      JMM is arguably 2-0 vs. Pacquiao, beat Barrera, Casamayor, and might beat Pac again in the rubbermatch.

                      Its not Finito's fault per se, but he just didn't have any marquee opponents during his reign.

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